Why is Canada still a constitutional monarchy?

[Asher]

Edmonton's on the way to the dark side. Too many blue-collar workers are condensing in the city, causing the vote to slowly shift over to the Dark Side.

Calgary is still the shining light of the province.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Unfortunately not quite right Tingkai. Enlightened Edmonton is a jewel ready for the plucking by the Liberals. We returned several Liberals in 97. McClellan barely held on to her seat in 2000. I think everybody else wiped out.

The fact is the Liberals wrote the city off. They ignored us and to make matters worse, campaigned partially on bashing the West.

Even though they had excellent prospects for 6 or so MPs from Edmonton, they drained that away through neglect and intentional alienation. So much for theories about converting from within.

Because the Liberals are getting arrogant. They see no threat so they are doing whatever they really want to do. When there is a threat, the federal Liberals have traditionally responded by doing whatever will get them the most votes. They generally have no political ideology other than to stay in power.

[notyoueither]

Edmonton is the seat of government (many unionized employees who consider more than the best place to drill next).

Edmonton is a University city. Many intellectuals (psuedo and otherwise).

Edmonton is the centre of service for the oil patch and rural communities for 60% of the province (many blue collar workers).

Edmonton has at least its share of immigrants.

Edmonton also has a very good dose of the rugged individualist streak of shared with the rest of Alberta. Very many "leave me alone to run my own life" conservatives.

For these reasons, Edmonton may very well be one of the more cosmopolitan locales in Western Canada. It sure is facsinating to live and work in.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Edmonton is a University city. Many intellectuals (psuedo and otherwise).

The UofA isn't much larger than the UofC, IIRC. In fact, I believe they're around the same size.

Edmonton has at least its share of immigrants.

So does Calgary. I was a minority in high school, and I'm a white male.

Calgary simply has more white collar workers than Edmonton, by a fair margin. Calgary's population is largely executives and employees of oil company and management, Edmonton's largely services and workers.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Because the Liberals are getting arrogant. They see no threat so they are doing whatever they really want to do. When there is a threat, the federal Liberals have traditionally responded by doing whatever will get them the most votes. They generally have no political ideology other than to stay in power.

Ironically, by the time they are done, there probably will be an NDP, Tory, CA alliance to not run against each other in any ridings across the nation. In other words, whoever is p*ssed at them just vote for the non-liberal left on the ballot. That may be what it takes to finally pry them out of power and decimate them.

They will have to be decimated x 9.9 before any real reform of our political landscape is ever possible. They will not allow it any other way. You have hit the nail on the head. They are the party of power. Pure power. Ideology is for winning elections and can be changed as one changes his or her socks.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Shouldn't the government be for all the people and not try to screw over the people that didn't vote for them?

Not for the Liberals. Their only concern is to stay in power.

The Liberals are not going out of their way to screw Alta, no matter what Asher says. The Liberals are trying to maintain votes in other provinces and if a policy will attract voters in other provinces, but alienate voters in Alta, then the Liberals will implement this policy. Pissing off Albertans is just a by-product of the Liberal strategy. It is not an end goal.

Albertans, meanwhile, have shown themselves to be quite adept at shooting themselves in the foot. They only vote right-wing so the Liberals ignore them.

Then Mulroney comes along and puts together a middle/right-wing coalition and forms two majority governments. The Albertans are in a great position because the PCs need their votes and the PC are politically in line with Albertan's attitudes. There was no way that the PCs would ever screw Alberta.

So what does Alberta do. They go this isn't good enough. The PCs are not right wing enough. Let's form another party.

End result is the PC coalition is destroyed, the right is divided and the Liberals walk into power.

As a left-winger, I'm perfectly happy with this result, but I will never understand why the Albertans did what they did. They were far better off under a united right-wing coalition than they are under the Liberals.

[notyoueither]

I am not going to turn the "Why is Canada still a constitutional monarchy?" into a Edmonton-Calgary debate.

Suffice to say, the UofA makes the UofC look like a rural K12 one-room school house (on the prairies).

You got more Banks and Oil head offices though. You can keep them. They look good down there.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Albertans, meanwhile, have shown themselves to be quite adept at shooting themselves in the foot. They only vote right-wing so the Liberals ignore them.

I REALLY hate your philosophy.
Alberta should not have to vote left wing in order to have a right wing vote. Never, ever, will that happen, and it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

What Alberta (and all of Canada, before the Liberals scuttle the country) needs is a united right wing party.

Then Mulroney comes along and puts together a middle/right-wing coalition and forms to majority governments.

How dare you call his party "right wing". Middle is pushing it, too. Compared to the US, Mulroney was still very much left wing.

So what does Alberta do. They go this isn't good enough. The PCs are not right wing enough. Let's form another party.

The PCs were not a right wing party under Mulroney. Why do you think Alberta got pissed off? We thought we voted for a right wing party only to find out that it's a chicken**** left wing, or at best center, party.
That's how the Reform party came about.

As a left-winger, I'm perfectly happy with this result, but I will never understand why the Albertans did what they did. They were far better off under a united right-wing coalition than they are under the Liberals.

Again, the right wing PCs at the time weren't exactly right wing, which is why the Reform party was born (real right wing).

It's not that hard of a concept.

But it's long overdue to merge the two into a real right wing concept. The PCs need to merge with the CA, and Manning needs to take control instead of Harper.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Suffice to say, the UofA makes the UofC look like a rural K12 one-room school house (on the prairies).

Yes, the UofA has 30,000 full time students (according to the website) and the UofC has 29,000 full time students.

Huge difference indeed.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Then Mulroney comes along and puts together a middle/right-wing coalition and forms two majority governments. The Albertans are in a great position because the PCs need their votes and the PC are politically in line with Albertan's attitudes. There was no way that the PCs would ever screw Alberta.

So what does Alberta do. They go this isn't good enough. The PCs are not right wing enough. Let's form another party.

End result is the PC coalition is destroyed, the right is divided and the Liberals walk into power.

As a left-winger, I'm perfectly happy with this result, but I will never understand why the Albertans did what they did. They were far better off under a united right-wing coalition than they are under the Liberals.

We agree entirely about the Liberal Party of Canada.

You are right about Liberal motives. They don't spend their Sunday's figuring how to screw Alberta next. But when the interests of power dictate, they don't care about the devastating consequences of their policies on Alberta.

You are wrong about why Liberals ignore us. You are on the trail though. Remember, POWER... that is the scent they are on to. Remember, POWER... it is not obtained in Alberta (or BC). We could vote for them all we want, we'd still get screwed the moment their interests in Ontario and Quebec were served by the act. Well, at least we'd have MPs apologize for it. Would they kiss us?

The bit about the PCs though, that's rich. They were wiped out nationally based on lies, lies, manufactured scandal, lies, and more lies. They went from 2 consecutive majorities to 2 seats! This was not a case of Alberta finding a way to self-destruct. Everybody bought it! That's how thoroughly the right wing in the entire country screwed themselves.

[notyoueither]

BTW. It's not just Alberta that is ill-served by the Liberal fascination with power combined with the electoral realities of central Canada.

The fisheries on both coasts have been totalled under their stewardship. The forestry indutry in BC is being hung out to dry. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the nature of the Liberals and Canada's severely undemocratic parliament is only an issue of burning import in Alberta. I guess the overt maleficence of the NEP was just a bit too much for us to be able to ignore, or forget.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither


The bit about the PCs though, that's rich. They were wiped out nationally based on lies, lies, manufactured scandal, lies, and more lies. They went from 2 consecutive majorities to 2 seats! This was not a case of Alberta finding a way to self-destruct. Everybody bought it! That's how thoroughly the right wing in the entire country screwed themselves.

Yeah I agree the Mulroney PCs did all that you say they did, but I have to give him credit for what he did in 88. After introducing the GST, and after all the corruption of the early years, he still managed to pull off a majority government.

The PCs were really destroyed at both ends: the creation of the Reform Party in the west and the BQ in Quebec.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I REALLY hate your philosophy.
Alberta should not have to vote left wing in order to have a right wing vote. Never, ever, will that happen, and it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

The PCs were not a right wing party under Mulroney. Why do you think Alberta got pissed off? We thought we voted for a right wing party only to find out that it's a chicken**** left wing, or at best center, party.
That's how the Reform party came about.

Again, the right wing PCs at the time weren't exactly right wing, which is why the Reform party was born (real right wing).

It's called politics. It's called strategic voting. It's what we do in Ontario and it is the reason why Ontario comes out on top. Ontario is the political battleground because it has the swing votes.

A "real right-wing" political party will never govern federally. The best you can do is middle/right wing which is better than middle/left wing for you Albertans, but not for me.

You folks in Alberta can take pride in your political principles, but you'll never have any power. You'll always be on the fringe just like any fanatical group.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The PCs were really destroyed at both ends: the creation of the growth of the Reform Party in the west and the BQ in Quebec.

But what caused these phenomena, and the accompanying fact that they got wiped in Ontario and the Maritimes too?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
It's called politics. It's called strategic voting. It's what we do in Ontario and it is the reason why Ontario comes out on top. Ontario is the political battleground because it has the swing votes.

Ontario comes out on top because of its massive population.
"Strategic voting" has nothing to do with it. The 2M voters in Alberta are very small peas to the liberals, with very different ideas than the liberals, it comes as no surprise that Alberta takes a back seat. Alberta takes a backseat primarily because we don't have enough votes to topple the liberal government, not because we're right wing. That's secondary.

A "real right-wing" political party will never govern federally. The best you can do is middle/right wing which is better than middle/left wing for you Albertans, but not for me.

If only that Quebeccer Mulroney didn't fudge it all up beyond recognition.

You folks in Alberta can take pride in your political principles, but you'll never have any power. You'll always be on the fringe just like any fanatical group.

Fanatical? As already said before, compared to other Western countries, Alberta's pretty centrist. It's only when compared with the left-wing mess that governs Canada right now that we appear extreme fanatics.

This is semirelated, and was touched on Earlier...:
Can anyone give Alberta some good reasons why life is better for us in Canada rather than the US or on our own? I'm not saying we should ditch Canada, I'm just asking for people to evaluate why we even stay here.

There doesn't seem to be too much benefit, but there's a whole lot of hell that comes with it.