Why is Canada still a constitutional monarchy?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
And if you need to vote always for majority government, why don't we just have a 1-party system of communism?

I never said that. I said Alta should vote for the party most likely to win. As long as the CA and PC are divided there is no point voting for them. If right-wingers stopped voting for the CA and PC in one election, that would send them a strong message to get their act together.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai


I never said that. I said Alta should vote for the party most likely to win. As long as the CA and PC are divided there is no point voting for them. If right-wingers stopped voting for the CA and PC in one election, that would send them a strong message to get their act together.

Again, I'd like to know where you get the idea that the Liberals would change their policies simply because 3M expendable votes think quite a bit differently from the 27M other people voting for them.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Like which issues?

GST, NAFTA to name but two.

Originally posted by Asher

Tinkai, I don't know what world you live in...but there's no way in hell Alberta would influence Liberal policies even if they did vote liberal. They do not need the votes here, they're expendable, and they've already made it painfully clear they think Alberta's ideas are that of the devil and must never be put into play.

Wrong. The Liberals don't need Alta only because the right wing is fighting among itself and poses no threat. If the right-wing was united, the federal elections would go down to the wire (as shown in my previous post, Ontario would not be completely Liberal Red).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
GST, NAFTA to name but two.

Not particularly.
If the conservatives were in power, you'd see a much stronger stance for Canada against the US in this lumber dispute, for example.

Wrong. The Liberals don't need Alta only because the right wing is fighting among itself and poses no threat. If the right-wing was united, the federal elections would go down to the wire (as shown in my previous post, Ontario would not be completely Liberal Red).

Okay, so again...explain this to me:
If Alberta votes liberal, how would this threaten the Liberals at all? It'd make them STRONGER and eliminate any kind of real competition whatsoever, which means they could actually be able to do just like they did before.

I agree with you that the right wing should be united to do anything, but voting for the liberals would accomplish absolutely nothing. I guarantee you they wouldn't budget to conservative policies on anything at all simply because they're getting 2M extra votes from Alberta.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Again, I'd like to know where you get the idea that the Liberals would change their policies simply because 3M expendable votes think quite a bit differently from the 27M other people voting for them.

And again, Alta votes are expendable to the Liberals only because the right is divided.

In 2000:
4,843,927 Canadians voted PC/CA
5 252 031 Canadians voted Liberal

A united right would force the Liberals to fight for every vote in every province.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
And again, Alta votes are expendable to the Liberals only because the right is divided.

In 2000:
4,843,927 Canadians voted PC/CA
5 252 031 Canadians voted Liberal

A united right would force the Liberals to fight for every vote in every province.

Yes, and I agree, but you keep saying that if Alberta votes for the liberals things would change for the better. Complete and utter nonsense.

That's like saying if the Allies caved to the Axis in World War II life would be much better, since we wouldn't have to fight them.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Not particularly.
If the conservatives were in power, you'd see a much stronger stance for Canada against the US in this lumber dispute, for example.


Okay, so again...explain this to me:
If Alberta votes liberal, how would this threaten the Liberals at all? It'd make them STRONGER and eliminate any kind of real competition whatsoever, which means they could actually be able to do just like they did before.

I agree with you that the right wing should be united to do anything, but voting for the liberals would accomplish absolutely nothing. I guarantee you they wouldn't budget to conservative policies on anything at all simply because they're getting 2M extra votes from Alberta.

If the right is united then there is no need to vote Liberal, but as long as the right is divided, the Liberals are the only party capable of winning. So if Alta start voting Liberal, the Liberals will look at it as a chance to develop a base for future elections when they have to fight a tight race against a re-united right. The Liberals will move their political platform to the right to cater to Alta, not on all things, but on some things. The Liberals would also be less likely to risk offending Alta because that would destroy any hopes of building on their initial gains there.

[notyoueither]

David James

My point in posting the 51% fallacy was to deflate the argument that a provincially or regionally balanced Senate could thwart the will of the majority of the voters.

The fact is that this country is currently ruled by minorities of voters (let's not even talk about citizens). That minority is usually overwhelmingly represented by MPs from Ontario and Quebec. In short, the voters of Ontario and Quebec rule this country with absotively zero checks on their power. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I don't know whether PR or a Transferrable ballot would be better for truer representation of the will of the people. There are arguments for and against both.

However, for people from central Canada to assert that their rights would be subverted by there being 10 Senators from each of 10 provinces is tending towards the absurd. More like their divine rights being restrained. Assuming of course that the Commons remained first past the post.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
If the right is united then there is no need to vote Liberal, but as long as the right is divided, the Liberals are the only party capable of winning. So if Alta start voting Liberal, the Liberals will look at it as a chance to develop a base for future elections when they have to fight a tight race against a re-united right.

Stop right there.
Alberta is the most right wing party. If there is a united right, the Liberals could kiss their chances goodbye in Alberta (again). They wouldn't waste valuable time and money here, they'd spend it in Ontario where they get lots more people to vote.

The Liberals will move their political platform to the right to cater to Alta, not on all things, but on some things. The Liberals would also be less likely to risk offending Alta because that would destroy any hopes of building on their initial gains there.

I REALLY don't see this happening.
Alberta is more right wing than the rest of the country, a slight movement from the liberals to the right isn't going to save their asses. You can bet on Alberta constantly voting for right wing parties, at least for the forseeable future. Half-assed fence-sitting doesn't count here.

[Tingkai]

Asher: would you agree that history shows that the Liberals are more concerned with staying in power then they are about any "liberal" principles?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher: would you agree that history shows that the Liberals are more concerned with staying in power then they are about any "liberal" principles?

History shows that Alberta will vote for the right wing parties, not a fence-sitting liberal party that (even in your best case scenerio) budged some of its policies farther right.

If they satisfy Alberta's needs by shifting stuff to the right, then it'd be a right wing party. If it's a right wing party, the left wing will be left to vote for NDP, they'd lose more votes then they gained.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Stop right there.
Alberta is the most right wing party. If there is a united right, the Liberals could kiss their chances goodbye in Alberta (again). They wouldn't waste valuable time and money here, they'd spend it in Ontario where they get lots more people to vote.

Arrgh!!! This is my whole point. As long as Alta consistently votes right wing, the Liberals have no reason to pay attention to it.

If Alta elected some Liberal MPs, and if there is a re-united right-wing posing a strong threat to the Liberals, then the Liberals would do whatever they could to get more Liberals elected in Alta.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Arrgh!!! This is my whole point. As long as Alta consistently votes right wing, the Liberals have no reason to pay attention to it.

And that's NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

Alberta's NOT going to vote liberal in the forseeable future.

It's like asking the US to vote communist.

If Alta elected some Liberal MPs, and if there is a re-united right-wing posing a strong threat to the Liberals, then the Liberals would do whatever they could to get more Liberals elected in Alta.

This is an impossible scenerio!
If there is a re-united right wing, there WOULD be no liberal MPs here.

The Liberals know that, that's why they don't even campaign here. Even with a divided right, they lost horribly in Alberta.

You're asking Albertans to vote for "the enemy" even in the face of a reunited right wing, in order to "pose a strong threat to the liberals". That will never, ever, happen. And quite frankly, it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

I'm not sure you understand that "liberal" is almost a curse in some parts of Alberta.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
If Alta elected some Liberal MPs, and if there is a re-united right-wing posing a strong threat to the Liberals, then the Liberals would do whatever they could to get more Liberals elected in Alta.

Unfortunately not quite right Tingkai. Enlightened Edmonton is a jewel ready for the plucking by the Liberals. We returned several Liberals in 97. McClellan barely held on to her seat in 2000. I think everybody else wiped out.

The fact is the Liberals wrote the city off. They ignored us and to make matters worse, campaigned partially on bashing the West.

Even though they had excellent prospects for 6 or so MPs from Edmonton, they drained that away through neglect and intentional alienation. So much for theories about converting from within.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Arrgh!!! This is my whole point. As long as Alta consistently votes right wing, the Liberals have no reason to pay attention to it.

So your solution is for Albertans to ignore their political leanings to satify people they don't agree with?

Shouldn't the government be for all the people and not try to screw over the people that didn't vote for them?

It's be like me telling California to vote more Republican and then they'll get more money (well that wouldn't happen anyway, but still, the argument holds).

Is this some ploy to get Alberta to be more leftist?