"Blacks ought to be thankful for slavery; otherwise, they'd be back in Africa."

[Lancer]

"The rest of what? Your entire post? Bloody hell, blah blah blah..."

Cop out.

[Drake Tungsten]

Re: Re: Re: This analogy doesn't hold water

Originally posted by Guynemer
The presense of Africans in the United States can not totally attributed to slavery, Drake.

You're technically correct, as today there are later African immigrants that were not victims of the slave trade. However, since we are dealing with slavery and its effects on the descendents of slaves, I think it is only prudent to look solely at how Africans who came to this country while slavery was still in effect got to this nation. If you can show me a significant source of African immigration in the pre-1865 period that did not involve the slave trade, I'll gladly rescind my comments. The Africans who immigrated later have little to do with any discussion of reparations, so I don't see the need to include them in this debate.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Lancer
"The rest of what? Your entire post? Bloody hell, blah blah blah..."

Cop out.

What the hell are you on about? You made the argument. Defend it, or retract it.

[David Floyd]

You are a conceited self righteous *******

Why thank you

ATL, first off you know good and well that compared to the US, on the whole, Africa is a ****hole - famine, war, corruption, AIDs, other disease, etc., all FAR more prevalent than in the US.

No, I've never been, but that really doesn't matter. Yes, there are nice parts of Africa. Yes, there are terrible parts of the US (both North and South - Harlem, anyone? ). The percentage of Africans living well is probably smaller than the percentage of Americans living in poverty (although that poverty is mostly their own fault). BUT, the average American lives far, far, far better than the average African. Not to mention what we call poverty here certainly is not poverty in Africa, and many times what they call rich in Africa probably roughly corresponds with my lifestyle, if that (unless you want to argue that corrupt dictators and their lackeys live well, but I wouldn't brag about that ). Finally, one thing in Africa that is not that prevalent here - disease. Those numbers speak for themselves.

Let me ask you this. Ignore that you are an American. Pretend you are, I dunno, Vietnamese, and have the option to go to either Africa the US. Where do you go? I think it's obvious - you would go to the US, and if anyone answers otherwise I'd question their honesty.

Now, on to your statistics.

In 1992, 47% of Black juveniles lived below the poverty level.

It might be important to note how many of these people are dropouts, how many of their parents were, and how the welfare state has screwed them.

Black males compose 19.4 % of the special education population while making up 8.2% of the national school enrollment

Proves nothing at all, except the obvious - that many blacks are in special education programs

· In 1993, Black males accounted for 65% of the 6,000 juvenile offenders held in adult prisons
· It is estimated that 1 in every 4 Black males, 28% of the Black male population, will be incarcerated in a federal or state prison at least once in their lifetime
· By the age of 20, an estimated 7.9% of Black males will serve a federal or state prison sentence
· During 1992, the national cost of incarcerating 490,000 Black males was $8.9 billion per year

Proves nothing except that blacks commit crimes.

· In 1993, 49% of all gunshot victims were Black males ages 15-24
· In 1992, there were 3,718 homicides of Black males ages 12-24, which represented 17% of all homicide victims. This was a rate of 114 homicides per 100,000 Black males
· In 1992, Black males were 14 times more likely to be homicide victims than any other racial group

I'd venture to say that the majority of this is black-on-black violence, so let's not use this to say you deserve reparations

as many as 800,000 Americans are homeless on any day

People are lazy and squander opportunity. So what?

[DarkCloud]

Jews ought to be thankful for the Holocaust; otherwise, they wouldn't have Israel.

You could always argbue that israel is a curse rather than a blessing.

[Lancer]

Last time I checked I don't take orders from you Guynemer.

[SultanofATL]

David,

Seriously isn't obvious that something is askew here? That those numbers would be such an anomaly(sp?) in one group should answer the question for you. Slavery was more of detriment to the black man and this country than anyone like yourself will ever admit. You can see it. If blacks are more violent....its what they were taught. If blacks are less educated.....its because we had whole generations that were not allowed to read. If blacks are are to be so thankful for bring beaten, starved, raped, worked to death and denied citzenry.......then don't expect things like 9/11 to be addressed by the world. In other words according to your thinking let it go. The US is still better off than everyone else. Whatever. The future?

[David Floyd]

Slavery was more of detriment to the black man

Of course it was - but for blacks today being here rather than Africa more than offsets that.

If blacks are more violent....its what they were taught.

Try that one in a courtroom

If blacks are less educated.....its because we had whole generations that were not allowed to read.

That has nothing to do with dropouts today, or hell, even their dropout parents. If they had the opportunity, and they squandered it, no one is to blame but themselves.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Lancer
Last time I checked I don't take orders from you Guynemer.

Coward.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

David.....

To make a blanket condemnation of America's homeless as "lazy" and "squandering opportunities" is one of the more crass and ignorant comments I've read today. You're better than that.

[Guynemer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: This analogy doesn't hold water

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


You're technically correct, as today there are later African immigrants that were not victims of the slave trade. However, since we are dealing with slavery and its effects on the descendents of slaves, I think it is only prudent to look solely at how Africans who came to this country while slavery was still in effect got to this nation. If you can show me a significant source of African immigration in the pre-1865 period that did not involve the slave trade, I'll gladly rescind my comments. The Africans who immigrated later have little to do with any discussion of reparations, so I don't see the need to include them in this debate.

Define "significant source of African immigration in the pre-1865 period that did not involve the slave trade." What would make it "significant"? After surfing around for a while, I found a site that listed African immigrants pre-Civil War at somewhere around 2,000... it was by decade, so I didn't add it up, and I thought I could find a better website. Sadly, no. I can try to dig it up again, but it may take a while.

Regardless, just as Israel can not be solely attributed to the Holocaust, blacks in American can not be solely attributed to slavery. The analogy seems apt to me.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
David.....

To make a blanket condemnation of America's homeless as "lazy" and "squandering opportunities" is one of the more crass and ignorant comments I've read today. You're better than that.

Are you sure of that?

Actually, I'm sorry. That's a cheap shot. But David, you really do turn into a hemorrhoidal a**hole when the topic of conversation comes anywhere near race. You're usually more intelligent than that.

[Lancer]

"coward"



Guynemer, I'd throw insults back and forth with you but I see no benefit from it. If you choose to get a bit of my post, but refuse to get the rest, I suspect your motives.

Now, have a nice day.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Lancer
"coward"



Guynemer, I'd throw insults back and forth with you but I see no benefit from it. If you choose to get a bit of my post, but refuse to get the rest, I suspect your motives.

Now, have a nice day.

I think I've made my motives pretty damned clear--don't strain that brain of yours trying to "suspect" things.

If you're so insulted that I didn't quote your entire post, and so convinced that it will exonerate you, then by all means, repost it here. Or if you're still going to be in a snit, I'll do it myself.

[Lancer]

What's a "snit"?