"Blacks ought to be thankful for slavery; otherwise, they'd be back in Africa."

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tuberski

First off slavery isn't mass murder, it's exploitation.

I never said it was. However, it is estimated that around a million slaves (at least) died in transit across the Atlantic.

Besides, that's not the point. That was a pretty decent evasion, though.

[WhiteElephants]

Originally posted by Guynemer

I'm not saying it was a pro-slavery argument. Obviously, no one is pro-slavery. All I was stating was that the fact you used that quote indicates that you think blacks should be grateful for slavery. If so, should Jews be thankful for the Holocaust?

Its not so much that blacks should be "grateful" for slavery. That's hardly the case. I think any race should be grateful they're here (among many other nations) and not in Africa just as the Jews should be thankful they were granted the right to self-govern, though by no means should they be grateful for the Holocaust. Apparently Ali, being black, was grateful his grandfather got "on the boat", though no where in that statement is Ali implying he is grateful for slavery. Does the end justify the means? I don't know, that's debateable. I'm not even sure anymore how this was brought up in the context of the original arguement of whether or not the ancestors of slaves should receive reparations? I'll have to review the old arguement. Ugghh...

Originally posted by Guynemer

I'm not trying to chastize. Defend it; you'll be showing bravery and forthrightness. Retract it; you'll be showing maturity and a willingness to acknowledge your own faults.

Whoa little doggy! Your riding a horse a might bit too high for your britches, no? You do realize you've lead quite an overzealous witch hunt, no? Let me know when the burnings at the stake will take place, ok? And try not to schedule them during my lunch break. Thanks.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by WhiteElephants


Its not so much that blacks should be "grateful" for slavery. That's hardly the case. I think any race should be grateful they're here (among many other nations) and not in Africa just as the Jews should be thankful they were granted the right to self-govern, though by no means should they be grateful for the Holocaust. Apparently Ali, being black, was grateful his grandfather got "on the boat", though no where in that statement is Ali implying he is grateful for slavery. Does the end justify the means? I don't know, that's debateable. I'm not even sure anymore how this was brought up in the context of the original arguement of whether or not the ancestors of slaves should receive reparations? I'll have to review the old arguement. Ugghh...

That's a fair explanation. Thank you.

Whoa little doggy! Your riding a horse a might bit too high for your britches, no? You do realize you've lead quite an overzealous witch hunt, no? Let me know when the burnings at the stake will take place, ok? And try not to schedule them during my lunch break. Thanks.

I'm not trying to lead a witch hunt. Ultimately, I'm trying to make people think critically about the argument that slavery is somehow justified by the fact that slave's descendants are now American.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


I never said it was. However, it is estimated that around a million slaves (at least) died in transit across the Atlantic.

Besides, that's not the point. That was a pretty decent evasion, though.

Okay, try this the Holocaust was much worse than slavery.

How, Six million people lost the ability to procreate, slavery did not deny people the right to procreate. Hows that?

But again it's like comparing strawberries and bananas, they are both injustices, they just do not compare favorably to each other.

EDIT: No the Jews are not better off because of the Holocaust.
If you read my statement that should be self explanatory.

If you want to ask another question make it a yes/no or true false that way there will be now evasion.

[WhiteElephants]

Upon further review of this entire thread and the previous thread the WhiteElephants committee of one has deemed this yet another polictically correct witch hunt gone awry. The Surgeon General warns that further reading and/or posting to this thread may result in excessive feelings of guilt for having been born caucasian and as a result an overzealous-swarmy-eco-hugging-do-gooder demeanor.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Tuberski
But again it's like comparing strawberries and bananas, they are both injustices, they just do not compare favorably to each other.

Are you insinuating that the might banana and his arch-rival strawberry are injustices?!

You, my friend, will be the first with your back against the wall when the revolution comes!

*This threadjacking has been brought to you by The Emperor Fabulous (tm). Thank you, and you will now be returned to your regularly schedualed bantering*

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Okay, try this the Holocaust was much worse than slavery.

How, Six million people lost the ability to procreate, slavery did not deny people the right to procreate. Hows that?

Excepting, of course, the million who died in transit...

EDIT: No the Jews are not better off because of the Holocaust.
If you read my statement that should be self explanatory.

If you want to ask another question make it a yes/no or true false that way there will be now evasion.

So if the Jews aren't better off because of the Holocaust, then the blacks aren't better off because of slavery. Mmmkay? Or do you still disagree?

WE--If you're really that overly-sensitive about this sort of thing, fine. But please don't put your hang-ups on me. I must admit, though, that was pretty damned funny.

That last bit goes for you too, Emperor.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


Are you insinuating that the might banana and his arch-rival strawberry are injustices?!

You, my friend, will be the first with your back against the wall when the revolution comes!

*This threadjacking has been brought to you by The Emperor Fabulous (tm). Thank you, and you will now be returned to your regularly schedualed bantering*

So sorry.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Excepting, of course, the million who died in transit...



So if the Jews aren't better off because of the Holocaust, then the blacks aren't better off because of slavery. Mmmkay? Or do you still disagree?

AGAIN, not the same thing! I never brought up the Jews. And this seems like one of those arguements you were railing against yesterday.

The Jews weren't relocated, they were exterminated. Okay I'll grant you your " one million died in transit".

Blacks aren't better off because of slavery, they are better off because of the relocation that happened to coincide with the slavery. Mmmkay?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Blacks aren't better off because of slavery, they are better off because of the relocation that happened to coincide with the slavery. Mmmkay?

That still sounds a little wishy-washy, but I know what you're trying to get across. However, if David Floyd typed this exact same thing, I'd interpret it completely differently.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


That still sounds a little wishy-washy, but I know what you're trying to get across. However, if David Floyd typed this exact same thing, I'd interpret it completely differently.

Well, thank god I'm not him. Because he never would have made that arguement. He would have said they were better off because of slavery and left it at that.

[orange]

Blacks aren't better off because of slavery, they are better off because of the relocation that happened to coincide with the slavery.

I think this really says it best

I'm not trying to justify slavery OR justify not giving them slavery reparations by saying that they're better off, but it is foolish to ignore the fact that they are.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by orange
I'm not trying to justify slavery OR justify not giving them slavery reparations by saying that they're better off, but it is foolish to ignore the fact that they are.

The problem is, better off compared to what? People in Africa today? Yes. Other people in American today? No. And what if slavery had never happened? Are blacks better off compared to how they would be if slavery had never happened, and had immigrated as most other ethnic groups have? No.

That's the point I've tried to make... obviously not very successfully. Slavery has been a net negative, not a net positive.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


The problem is, better off compared to what? People in Africa today? Yes. Other people in American today? No. And what if slavery had never happened? Are blacks better off compared to how they would be if slavery had never happened, and had immigrated as most other ethnic groups have? No.

That's the point I've tried to make... obviously not very successfully. Slavery has been a net negative, not a net positive.

I would agree it is a NET negative, But to say nothing is positve is incorrect.

Your arguement is based on supposition.

I can not even decide on your supposition.

Because it didn't happen.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tuberski


I would agree it is a NET negative, But to say nothing is positve is incorrect.

Your arguement is based on supposition.

I can not even decide on your supposition.

Because it didn't happen.

Well, the argument "Without slavery, they'd still be in Africa" is a supposition too, strictly speaking.

I know. I'm a right bastard sometimes.

But if it's a net negative, there's nothing to be thankful for.