Abortion: A 'right' that is wrong? (two theses for debate)

[November Adam]

I would think that if a descision could be made on the nature of the fetus, one way or the other emotions should have little relevance.

And why are people ignoring me!!

[MrWhereItsAt]

Ideally Adam yes, but emotions and laws are the main ideas being cited in this thread - it is difficult to keep emotions out of abortion debates.

And laws are only laws whilst they are accepted as being "right".

And who's ignoring you? You gotta directly ask questions, direct at ppl or stir to get replied.

[TCO]

Originally posted by MrFun
Albert, a woman would not make a decison on mere convenience when she considers the psychological, physical, and social trauma of going through an abortion -- regardless of what class she is.

As for my opinion on abortion, I believe in restricted abortion that is legal under the following conditions:

1) rape

2) endangerment of the pregnant woman's life

3) incest

1. tres interestsant.


2. I miss KMichelle and the child we had like crazy and will fopr the rest of my life.

3. Giant Squid surprisees me and I miss him and respect him both...

[MrFun]

I have withdrawn incest as the third reason for a legitimate abortion.

Some other Apolyton member waved the wand of revelation over my head.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Are you really up to the seriousness of this thread GP?

[TCO]

where at:


!. I'm way tired to discuss this rationally.

2. But I do have a deep [personal experience with it. until tyou've had your g/f break down in your arms afete an abortiuon with having her wstuff opened up... /welll /i will think of it for the rest of my life.... and always do an d alwauys will....and it was in 91....

[MrFun]

Sorry GP -- no can do.

Loinburger is probably stalking this thread, waiting for me quote myself again, which I do only a few times.

Find it yourself.

[Stefu]

Ok for all you guys with a penis.......unless you have been in the position to have to make the decision to have an abortion then you really have no room for debate on this issue.

Yeah, well, umm, err, umm, next time some guy bludgeons someone to death with his penis, we better make dang sure we have no women talking about it!

[November Adam]

Originally posted by Tiamat
You can debate and debate until you are blue in the face but unless you've stood in that person's shoes, felt the indecision, felt the hopelessness of what do I do, how do I handle this, how do I pay for this, how do I tell my family, how do I tell his family, can I raise a child, will he help, and if I do this will I be damned to hell forever??!??? Unless you know what that feels like then it's all pure conjecture.

You have no idea the depths that a decision like that effects your life, not just for that moment but for the rest of your life.

Shouldn't this be reinforced on people prior to them having sex?

[Tiamat]

I'd still like to hear Tia's view (apart from it being a decision we men cannot fathom).

Alright then you will, however I am at work at the moment so I cannot express my views for another few hours when I have some down time.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Cheers Tia. It might inject some much-needed "unique perspective" into the thread.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tiamat
You can debate it or argue it because you feel that innocents are being harmed correct? You obviously feel passionatly about it so you speak out on it.

I guess I was taking a strictly womens point of view on this issue. It's a very personal decision for someone to have to make. Having had children I guess I was sympathizing with someone who would be in that position.

It blows me away that you have to explain this to these guys. Sometimes the debaters are so 1 dimensional. buncha nitanoids...

[TCO]

Originally posted by connorkimbro

You can debate and debate until you are blue in the face but unless you've stood in that person's shoes, felt the indecision, felt the hopelessness of what do I do, how do I handle this, how do I pay for this, how do I tell my family, how do I tell his family, can I raise a child, will he help, and if I do this will I be damned to hell forever??!??? Unless you know what that feels like then it's all pure conjecture.

Tiamat, you know i love ya hon, but this is just wrong. No matter how heart wrenching such an experience may be, emotions NEVER justify taking any side of an argument. Something is either right or wrong for rational reasons, and NOT based on how one personally feels about something.

For this reason, men are just as qualified as women to speculate on abortion's morality.

Fine Connor, but if you spend all your time discussing the policy question, you are missing an opportunity to learn/discuss the bigger picture. Which includes more than "should government allow this".

[TCO]

Originally posted by Ramo
I think that before the first trimester, abortion should be totally legal due to its underdeveloped brain and nervous system. Afterwards, abortion should be legal only in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger.



The premise is that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body since it's her property.

Just to be nitanoid, the real premise is that the fetus IS a part of the woman's body like an arm or leg...rather than a unique human life. You can take this premise and argue for it...but your opposition will argue the contrary.

[DanS]

GP: Yes, in a broader sense, the legalities are a secondary consideration (though not unimportant). Personal ethics is where the rubber hits the road. Do you propose to use emotions as a guidepost here?

Sympathy and empathy are two different things. Tia is confusing them.