Slavery reparations

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

As for the slaves, I do understand that by 1800 or so, most o****ryies did not like slavery, but before that time there can be 0 argument for reparations.

So what of the period between 1800-1865, when--by your own admission--the rest of the world regarded American slaves the same way the rest of the world regarded German Jews under the Nazis? I believe you've just negated your own argument... thanks for saving me the effort.

And also, how can these "descendants" prove that their ancestors worked there.

There are hundreds of tiny and many large (already stated) reasons they don't deserve the money.

There are hundreds of tiny and many large reason that they do deserve the money, which I have outline.

How can they prove their ancestors worked for the corporations in question? Birth records, geneologies, genetics, what-have-you. All sorts of methods.

[Lancer]

Excuse me Guynemer, but I find this discussion dificult to take seriously.

I see no problem in black people billing the decendants of slave owners for the work those slaves did if the slave owners can counter sue for transportation charges from Africa, victuals, and housing.

Why?

Because the decendants of slaves have something here in America that their relatives in Africa lack.

Oportunity.

Also, most of the slaves were owned by blacks before being sold to slavers. The blacks were tribal of course, and would sell POWs in the coastal slave markets, run by blacks, for money to finance their continued wars. Before slavery started these poor unfortunate POWs were commonly tortured to death. SO, instead of sueing people who weren't even alive at that time, or companies that were involved in the slave trade whose owners and stockholders weren't alive at that time, maybe the blacks ought to try to obtain money in the land of oportunity the old fashioned way, earn it. Just like the English settlers, the Poles, Jews, Germans and Irish. All these groups had a fight to begin with. Perhaps not against slavery, but at first against an undeveloped land, later against extreme poverty and racism, such as the Irish.

My mother, decended from German imigrants, suffered great hardships growing up in poor, dirty,overcrowded cities. Her people did flee europe because of religious persicution. Am I to sue the governments of europe for the religious intolerance of the 1600s?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by loinburger


Exactly! It's easy to make 400 posts about Civ3: pick one side ("This game sucks" or "This game doesn't") and vehemently defend your position on ever single thread that pops up on the subject (by "vehemently defend" I mean "post the same damn thing over and over again"). If nobody is challenging your position, then just switch sides and repeat steps 1 through 7. Within a week I guarantee that Guy will have his custom avatar.

Just doesn't sound like it's fun, LB. Selling my soul, on the other hand, has all sorts of deliciously evil connotations to it... THAT sounds exciting!

C'mon Ming... put in a good word for me. I'm a decent enough fellow.

[Berzerker]

I'm sorry, but can't you guys see the immorality of "reparations"?
They seek to punish the innocent living for the crimes of the dead.

Ramo -

What do you mean?

Jefferson didn't assert any federal prohibition against civil ex post facto laws.

Which is what I posted. Go back and read the quote from Jefferson on page five.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Guynemer
Just doesn't sound like it's fun, LB. Selling my soul, on the other hand, has all sorts of deliciously evil connotations to it... THAT sounds exciting!

Oh granted, the process isn't fun, at least if you avoid getting banned it isn't. You've got to work for that custom avatar, dammit!

[Guynemer]

Lancer--

I have a hard time taking you seriously, when you obviously keep missing the point, not to mention you bring up the odious argument, "They ought to be thankful they were dragged over here in chains."

That's like saying, "The Jews ought to be thankful for the Holocaust. Without that, they never would have gotten Israel."

BULL****.

For the ten billionth time, this is not about suing governments! Why do you insist on trying to make it about that?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Elucidus
What about Native Americans, shouldn't they be owed something? Afterall, this was their land that we built our country/businesses on.

Actually, if you read about the court cases up to current times, there have been many settlements put forward by various tribal governments.

Their claims are even more legitimate, due to treaties that have been repeatedly broken by state governments, federal government, and settlers themselves.

And due to the dillution of the races over such a period of time, it would be very difficult if not impossible to prove ancestry in slavery.

But could a person prove SOME link to their ancestry to slavery??

[cia]

I plan on suing all of the companies I've worked for that didn't pay me enough. Obviously they built their business on my back!

[Ramo]

Which is what I posted. Go back and read the quote from Jefferson on page five.

What are you referring to in particular?

His comment about state ex post facto laws? Do you expect all of the state Constitutions in the early 19th century not to have amended the provision by now (and Jefferson didn't mention the initial status of the laws - do they refer to civil ex post facto laws as well?)? Or that every new state has the provision?

I'd appreciate a more modern source.

And why can't the trial go through federal courts?

[Elucidus]

Still, I can't even fathom sueing someone, for something someone else did before myself or my grandparents were even born. That is just ludicrous!!!

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by cia
I plan on suing all of the companies I've worked for that didn't pay me enough. Obviously they built their business on my back!

You're comparing that to slavery? Funny, I don't think slaves could get away with giving two weeks notice before they quit.

Sorry ass troll, compadre.

[MrFun]

Ever tried participating in an argument that you're interested in, but others ignore you??

Well on this thread, that's the case with me.

[Capt Dizle]

One of the side issues here that I find ironic is that there are many people in America today who are descendants of both slaves and slaveowners.
Maybe Arthur Andersen could help us sort that out.

[orange]

Originally posted by Guynemer
BTW Orange... does this mean the honeymoon is over?

The honeymoon was over when you and Ribannah lost the Iroquois debate

[rah]

Originally posted by MrFun

And due to the dillution of the races over such a period of time, it would be very difficult if not impossible to prove ancestry in slavery.

But could a person prove SOME link to their ancestry to slavery??

My point exactly. And to make it worse, records are spotty.

What if a person is a child of an ex-slave and a white? Dillution would be even more rapid. Would they qualify?

150 years is at least 6 generations. Heck I can only trace my family heritage back solid for 4 generation with some of the 5th. A lot of work was needed to take it back that far.

So even if there was some merit, proof would be very hard to come by. Imagine the feeding frenzy by fly-by-night companies that specialize in bogus family trees. Justice would not be served.

Now native americans is a different story. Some would argue that through treaties (even though quite a few have been broken) that the tax issues and gambling issues is a form of reparations. Quite a few tribes get healthy stipeds annually from gambling revenues and mineral rights. There have been quite a few horror stories of people attempting to scam proof of ancestery to claim a share of that stiped. And other stories where people had proof and were denied. Imagine what would happen if this was played out on an even greater scale.
Only the lawyers would get rich.

And the final question, Do reperations really solve anything? A lot of people feel (whether right or wrong) that the Stiped that some indian tribe's give to tribe members actually hurts them. Quite a few don't work and just drink. Now is it fair that someone can just sit around and drink because one of the ancesters was persecuted. Justice is not served.
(I know this is a broad generalization but there is some truth buried in there somewhere)


RAH
Mr. Fun, I've quoted you a couple of times in this thread, so you can't be completely being ignored.