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[KrazyHorse]

You keep arguing about who's more justified in seceding. I'm not, since I think both provinces should quit their *****ing.

You obviously have no idea what Quebec voters are capable of, Asher. There's a 250 year-old hatred that lives in the hearts of many of them. They feel like a conquered people, and this is why the issue remains, not because they aren't politically represented or because there are economic issues. Down deep, this is what really matters to people. Les vrais Québecois and Québecoises don't "feel" like Canadians, and this lies at the root of the problems.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You keep arguing about who's more justified in seceding. I'm not, since I think both provinces should quit their *****ing.

The difference: Quebec has no reason to whine.
Alberta's losing money to fund provinces like Quebec to whine for the sake of whining.
Alberta is IGNORED by the federal government. Not only that, but the federal government MEDDLES WITH PROVINCIAL POLITICS and starts smear campaigns about stuff we pass provincially (remember bill 11?).
Alberta has REASONS to whine. If you don't want to hear it, perhaps you could get the government you guys elect to stop taking our money and giving us the shaft whenever you can.

You obviously have no idea what Quebec voters are capable of, Asher. There's a 250 year-old hatred that lives in the hearts of many of them. They feel like a conquered people, and this is why the issue remains, not because they aren't politically represented or because there are economic issues. Down deep, this is what really matters to people. Les vrais Québecois and Québecoises don't "feel" like Canadians, and this lies at the root of the problems.

I'm all for Quebec's separation.
As far as I'm concerned, they add nothing of value to the country.
They're a black hole for money and an embarassment.
I mean, really...having laws that the French portion of a sign must be >50% of the text? That's stupid. Really, really stupid.

Another pet peve of mine: Newfoundland. Why did we let NFLD into the country?! What do they add to Canada?
What they TAKE is money. 60% of their budget comes from the federal government (more specifically, other provinces. More specifically, Alberta).

[KrazyHorse]

The difference: Quebec has no reason to whine.
Alberta's losing money to fund provinces like Quebec to whine for the sake of whining.
Alberta is IGNORED by the federal government. Not only that, but the federal government MEDDLES WITH PROVINCIAL POLITICS and starts smear campaigns about stuff we pass provincially (remember bill 11?).
Alberta has REASONS to whine. If you don't want to hear it, perhaps you could get the government you guys elect to stop taking our money and giving us the shaft whenever you can

Bill 11 is the first step toward destroying Medicare in this country. The federal gov't could easily withdraw your health-care funding. It has all the right in the world to meddle with provincial politics, since the provinces feel no compunction about meddling with federal politics.

You live in a social democracy, Asher. The federal government has broad powers to tax and spend money where it feels like, and there is no way we'll let Alberta try to make us more like the States.

[KrazyHorse]

Anyhow, I really didn't feel like making this a new thread to discuss redneck politics. I know Quebec is your favourite foil, but I'd appreciate it if we kept the discussion within the scope of the original post.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Bill 11 is the first step toward destroying Medicare in this country. The federal gov't could easily withdraw your health-care funding. It has all the right in the world to meddle with provincial politics, since the provinces feel no compunction about meddling with federal politics.

So very typical.
You guys don't have a clue what Bill 11 is.
The federal government practically brainwashed everyone into thinking everyone it's the first step towards privatized healthcare.
This is what I'm talking about, KH.
Go read the actual text of Bill 11. Understand what it is, and then compare that to what Chretien told everyone it is.

Also, the federal government could NOT easily withdraw our health-care funding. Didn't that make the newspapers in Quebec? It turned out there was absolutely nothing wrong with Bill 11, and the Federal government couldn't do anything about it. The result? They funded an advertising campaign using federal money to try to kill the bill's support. Since it didn't work in Alberta, they thought it'd be fun to move it to a nationwide *****fest.

You live in a social democracy, Asher. The federal government has broad powers to tax and spend money where it feels like, and there is no way we'll let Alberta try to make us more like the States.

It's easy to say that when you're on the receiving end of someone else's gratitude, isn't it?
When you're the one paying, on average, $900/year that you never see again to fund homeless people in NFLD and fund Quebec arts and cultural programs, you may see a problem with it too.

[KrazyHorse]

Too bad. Why don't we start *****ing about how poor people get more from the government than they have to give? Maybe we should only have a poll tax?

You live in a country where 130 years of history dictates that the wealthy owe something to the less wealthy. Transfer payments are just one way the federal gov't redistributes the wealth.

Oh, and by the way, why don't you find out what the costs and benefits were to Alberta 50 or 60 years ago? Until the 70s Alberta was poorer per capita than the Central and Eastern provinces, and sucked off their teat. Now they've grown up to be spoiled brats who think they're getting screwed by having to contribute.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Too bad. Why don't we start *****ing about how poor people get more from the government than they have to give? Maybe we should only have a poll tax?

Because it's entirely different. If regions are consistently and completely unreasonable to live in (Like Newfoundland), the government should pay for these people to relocate to areas where they can get jobs and contribute to the company. They should NOT give them free handouts and support the 20-25% unemployment rate.

Likewise, they should NOT use money from Alberta to fund Quebec arts programs.

You live in a country where 130 years of history dictates that the wealthy owe something to the less wealthy. Transfer payments are just one way the federal gov't redistributes the wealth.

Now do you see why Alberta's not happy with that?
We don't believe in many of the basic premises of Canada in general. Why are we here?!

Oh, and by the way, why don't you find out what the costs and benefits were to Alberta 50 or 60 years ago? Until the 70s Alberta was poorer per capita than the Central and Eastern provinces, and sucked off their teat. Now they've grown up to be spoiled brats who think they're getting screwed by having to contribute.

And we STILL voted conservatives into power and we STILL were against the principle.
Doesn't that tell you something?

[KrazyHorse]

The answer's simple: live with it.

By the way, do you know what two provinces have the fewest seats per capita in Parliament?

[Asher]

Nope.
But I don't see how it's relevant to anything, considering those provinces are most likely electing members to the majority government.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The answer's simple: live with it.

And people wonder why Alberta's angry and protests the Federal policies.

It's like me repeatedly stepping on your toes because you can't do anything about it, then telling you to "live with it".

[KrazyHorse]

What's your point? You complain about Alberta not being politically represented, when in fact the average citizen in Quebec and Ontario has far less individual power.

We should amalgamate all the Western provinces. That way you'd get to feel important, and your transfer payments would be cut.

Why don't you complain about federal subsidies to farmers and price controls on agro-products, by the way? Alberta wins out on those.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What's your point? You complain about Alberta not being politically represented, when in fact the average citizen in Quebec and Ontario have far less individual power.

1) Define "far less"
2) Why does this matter, considering they elect >50% of the entire government, which means they elect a majority government anyway?

We should amalgamate all the Western provinces. That way you'd get to feel important, and your transfer payments would be cut.

Yeah, Alberta really wants to be grouped with BC and Saskatchewan. We share so many interests...

Why don't you complain about federal subsidies to farmers and price controls on agro-products, by the way? Alberta wins out on those.

Watch me.
I hate those too.

[Richelieu]

Hello there!

Were you guys waiting for me ?

[KrazyHorse]

1) Define "far less"
2) Why does this matter, considering they elect >50% of the entire government, which means they elect a majority government anyway?

Asher, our current political system overvalues Albertan voters and undervalues Quebec and Ontario voters. You're just complaining that Quebec and Ontario are too big. It's a fact of life. Alberta's can't make or break governments because it's just not big enough, and thus it shouldn't have as much power.

By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Nfld. is losing people and Alberta is gaining people. Transfer payments don't stop inter-provincial migration; they just slow it down to managable levels. There's already a housing crisis in Alta, according to StatsCan.

By the way, if migration continues at the current rate, it won't be long before Alta is electing NDP governments...

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Asher, our current political system overvalues Albertan voters and undervalues Quebec and Ontario voters. You're just complaining that Quebec and Ontario are too big. It's a fact of life. Alberta's can't make or break governments because it's just not big enough, and thus it shouldn't have as much power.

I want numbers, KH.
I want numbers of seats per province, and population per province.

I also think that it's a major problem if Quebec and Ontario, which tend to vote for similar things, can decide the federal governemtn for the entire country, and then proceed to bully provinces like Alberta which (whether you'd like to admit or not), have no say in how Federal politics work.

Something needs to be done. Surely you can see that if you look at it rationally...

By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Nfld. is losing people and Alberta is gaining people. Transfer payments don't stop inter-provincial migration; they just slow it down to managable levels. There's already a housing crisis in Alta, according to StatsCan.

Housing crisis? Yeah, okay, whatever.
Prices are down since last year on housing. They were up 2% or somethign the year before. Crisis! Crisis! Red Alert! The Federal department StatsCan has decided Alberta has a crisis...

By the way, if migration continues at the current rate, it won't be long before Alta is electing NDP governments...

Nonsense, the NDP and liberals actually lost seats in the recent elections, conservatives gained even more.

Just because people were NDP/liberal elsewhere doesn't mean they'll share the same views here. Particularly when they see where lots of their money is going.