Is the U.S. turning into a police state?

[faded glory]

I think the reason maybe be because of the harsh NG treatment of the 60's rioters. A few times they imposed martial law ; and a few inexpeirenced militiamen used there guns and dogs too excessively.


But this is irrelevant. The NG wouldnt allow a hostile take over from the government. Not if its intentions were to establish a police state.


Also, the governer you are talking about gave NG authority to the government after much fighting. To save his political arse.

[David Floyd]

Also, the governer you are talking about gave NG authority to the government after much fighting. To save his political arse.

Nope, Ike federalized it.

Article 3 Sec. 6 of the MS Constitution asserts the States exclusive right to regulate its internal government and police and alter or abolish them as they see fit provided it isn't repugnant to the US Constitution.

Art. 3 Sec. 14 provides that no person shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law.

Not only was the MS Governor violating the precepts of the US Constitution which his government agrees holds sway over the law of his State even in absence of the 14th ammendment, his actions were also in violation of his own State's Constitution.

edit - sorry, you meant MS Constitution

That may be so, but also remember that due process might be different for MS than it is fir the US. I'd have to research that, though.

In any case the federal government can't punish violations of State Constitutions.

[David Floyd]

Limits on the States are found in Article 2 Section 10, by the way, and your citations are not found there.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I assume you mean Article 4?

Article 3 is where the State Bill of Rights (ie the rights of the People) is located. Article 4 deals with the Legislature, if you can tell me how that section of the Constitution would be relevent in this case I'd be interested.

There IS no Article 4 Section 6 OR 14...so fix your citations, then I'll respond.

Tell me why Article 4 would be of interest to you and I'll fix my citations if necessary.

[David Floyd]

Sorry I fixed my post...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Floyd, you are a total nutjob.

The 14th Amendment was the most needed Amendment to the Constitution after the Bill of Rights. You say it was forced down the South's throats. Well, when you are conquered territory, you end up losing your rights. **** happens, get used to it.

[David Floyd]

The 14th Amendment was the most needed Amendment to the Constitution after the Bill of Rights. You say it was forced down the South's throats. Well, when you are conquered territory, you end up losing your rights. **** happens, get used to it.

I'm not gonna reiterate my arguments here, when they are on the thread about the War of Northern Aggression, but suffice it to say, needed or not, the 14th was ratified both immorally and illegally.

[mactbone]

Except for the fact the fact that the South did in fact vote for their senators who in fact did vote on the measures. Look, as long as they had a choice, which they did, then you can't say it's illegal. How immoral is it to allow them to vote?

If I were a senator right now, I could make a deal with another senator that I would vote his way on an issue, if he would vote my way on another issue. So, by your limited terms, that is illegal and immoral. We gave the South an incentive to vote for the amendments, and they decided that the incentives were worth it. Noone held a gun to their head. They had a choice.

[Sava]

Every bit of data that travels across the internet is intercepted by the NSA. The only thing is, they usually aren't smart enough to find anything.

Surveillance cameras in public places have already been defeated in the courts in Detroit. Right now, the government is trying to install cameras at the monuments in Washington DC. The ACLU is suing them and they will win.

I don't think the US will turn into a police state unless the people want it to be.

Even though rich white men run this country, the people still have the power.

[mactbone]

Yes, the "evil white rich men" was what you intended, right?

BS.

Just because you're a white man and have money doesn't make you evil, or out to destroy rights.

That NSA thing doesn't make much sense at all, not all data passes through any one place. Right now my connection is flowing through Internet2 lines, so I don't even go through Chicago like I normally would. The only way the NSA could do that, and it would only be for Americans, is if they put this program at every major hub, and even then it wouldn't get all traffic, because some doesn't flow through the hubs.

[chequita guevara]

If you don't believe the US is a police state try doing one of two things. Organize a mass demonstration against globalization or live in a poor area of the country.

I was standing on the corner one night, waiting for a bus. I was the only white person (it was largely an Hispanic neighboorhood: Cuban, Puerto Rican, etc, with a number of Black people living there also.) There were maybe, five Black guys walking around, including one guy waiting for the bus with me. All of a sudden, two police cars pulled up, and started going through everyone's pockets (except mine, I was ignored), putting people up against walls and frisking them, etc.

Yeah, we don't live in a police state.

I've seen cops fling people down stairs. I have been surrounded by police and searched just for walking outside late at night ... in the suburbs (I still don't know what that was about). I've had my phone tapped. I've had Fed's hanging outside my apartnement.

Yeah, we don't live in a police state.

No, torture is officially illegal, and extrajudicial execution is right out, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, especially in poor and minority neighborhoods. Chicago and Illinois are still dealling with the effects of a police torture ring during the '80s, since some of those they tortured were convicted on the basis of their confessions and have life and/or death sentences.

Yeah, we don't live in a police state.

Sure, if you aren't poor, and you live in a nice area, and you aren't a minority, and you keep your mouth shut, then the police probably won't ever mess with you, just like in almost every other police state in the world.

Is it as bad as Nazi Germany or Stalin's USSR? Don't be silly. They were terrorist police states. But we have more people in the penal system than any country in the world.

Yeah, we don't live in a police state.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Organize a mass demonstration against globalization or live in a poor area of the country.

Does MS count as living in a poor area of the country? Would that give my opinions more weight?

But we have more people in the penal system than any country in the world.

I thought Russia had more.

[Adalbertus]

Sure, if you aren't poor, and you live in a nice area, and you aren't a minority, and you keep your mouth shut, then the police probably won't ever mess with you, just like in almost every other police state in the world.

In Nazi Germany you could even be poor as long as you didn't live on the street. The rest was a necessary requirement for survival. Yes, the Nazis had something socialist - if you belonged to the right group (and before the war).

Stalins terror (and maybe the one during the French revolution) were the only terror systems I know of where *nothing* helped.

[MrFun]

In some limited, partial ways, the United States has some aspects of what a true police state would have.

For instance, today, it is legal in some states for police to break into a person's house and arrest two people engaged in sex if they are both of the same gender even though they are both mutually consenting adults. Then, those two people can be legally prosecuted even though their right to privacy was violated.

Historically, you can also look at lynching. Lynching was a legal institution until the 1940's, after World War II ended. But lynching was carried out mostly by civilian mobs who almost never had to worry about being prosecuted for lynching.

[Ramo]

I thought Russia had more.

In per capita terms, Russia his highest prison population (the US would be bumped down to second), but in absolute numbers, the US has the highest.