Is the U.S. turning into a police state?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's who I meant. Later he tried to march across Mississippi, but some cracker shot him.

I think that your confusing him with Medgar Evers again.

[chequita guevara]

Nah, Evers was head of the local NAACP and was murdered in his yard. Meredith was only winged, but it stopped him from completing his march. Dr. King took it up, and was joined by a lot of SNCC kids. That was the march where the Black Power movement was born, and King began to take a back seat to the younger generation.

[KrazyHorse]

Blah. I think I remember pretty good for it not being my country and all.

[Lancer]

It really all depends on whether I've gotten a ticket recently. Right now, no, it's a free country.

Actually hieghtened security is still for the protection of Americans, not the oppression. If it ever crosses that line every veteran will grab his gun and much of the military would revolt. In the US democracy is too deeply rooted ever to be undone. That's not to say it won't be tested however.

[David Floyd]

I'm not talking about Meredith, I'm talking about the forced integration of Central High in Little Rock.

Oh, and the NG should be under the SOLE control of the Governors - if they don't want to commit their troops to a foreign war, too damn bad for the President.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Oh, and the NG should be under the SOLE control of the Governors - if they don't want to commit their troops to a foreign war, too damn bad for the President.

What foreign war are you talking about? The governors were violating the US Constitution. What would you have the President do? Look at them disapprovingly?

If it makes you feel any better, the army was called out as well when Ole Miss was integrated. From what I remember, the federal troops were needed as well.

[David Floyd]

The governors were violating the US Constitution.

No they didn't - civil rights laws were based on the illegitimate 14th Amendment.

[Ramo]

As long as we're getting into pointless legalistic rhetoric...

Legitimate or not, neither the states, nor the President, have the authority to declare a Constitutional Amendment illegitimate. The Supreme Court did not declare the amendment unconstitutional, so it's federal law.

Eisenhower had all the authority he needed to force integration.

[David Floyd]

Legitimate or not, neither the states, nor the President, have the authority to declare a Constitutional Amendment illegitimate. The Supreme Court did not declare the amendment unconstitutional, so it's federal law.

Eisenhower had all the authority he needed to force integration.

That doesn't change facts.

If Congress passed a law banning all firearms and did away with the 4th and 5th Amendment protections, and SCOTUS upheld it, I'd still not be obliged to follow the law, although assassinations would be in order.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
No they didn't - civil rights laws were based on the illegitimate 14th Amendment.

You could just as well say that they are based on the 5th and 9th ammendments.

[David Floyd]

You could just as well say that they are based on the 5th and 9th ammendments.

No you couldn't, because you need the 14th to apply those amendments to the States.

[Ramo]

That doesn't change facts.

If Congress passed a law banning all firearms and did away with the 4th and 5th Amendment protections, and SCOTUS upheld it, I'd still not be obliged to follow the law,

Why's that? SCOTUS legally interprets the Constitution, not you.

The 14th Amendment fixed a major defficiency in the Constitution, get over it.

[David Floyd]

Why's that? SCOTUS legally interprets the Constitution, not you.

That's right, but if the federal government is blatantly violating the Constitution, the Founders understood that it is our duty to fight back - what do you think the 2nd is for?

[DinoDoc]

What the hell. I'll continue the debate.

Originally posted by David Floyd
No you couldn't, because you need the 14th to apply those amendments to the States.

I'll go with the forced integration of Ole Miss as an example of why this isn't necessarialy so and because I know more about that situation.

Article 3 Sec. 6 of the MS Constitution asserts the States exclusive right to regulate its internal government and police and alter or abolish them as they see fit provided it isn't repugnant to the US Constitution.

Art. 3 Sec. 14 provides that no person shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law.

Not only was the MS Governor violating the precepts of the US Constitution which his government agrees holds sway over the law of his State even in absence of the 14th ammendment, his actions were also in violation of his own State's Constitution.

[Ramo]

The 14th Amendment is a good thing. Ignoring the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments are bad things. We should fight back against bad things, and fight for good things.

As for this legalistic nonsense about the poor widdle states having some of their authority taken away by the federal gov't and given back to mean oppressive people, I couldn't care less about what a bunch of rich mercantilists or feudal lords thought about my liberties.