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  • World spins on claim China discovered America

    World spins on claim China discovered America
    By Tim Castle

    LONDON (Reuters) - Is it good-bye Columbus?


    A British historian's claim that a Chinese admiral reached America decades before the Italian explorer has unleashed a frenzy of media interest in a theory that could force the rewriting of history.


    Gavin Menzies, 64, a former Royal Navy submarine commander, provoked headlines around the globe last week after a newspaper published an outline of his thesis that China "discovered" the New World 70 years before the West.


    Based on contemporary European maps and records, Chinese star charts and archaeological finds, Menzies' case is that Chinese sailors mapped the world in the early 1400s before abandoning global seafaring in the middle of the 15th century.


    Historians contacted by Reuters say the amateur historian's thesis is speculative and leaps to conclusions that may be correct but have yet to be proved.


    Menzies says Chinese maps passed to the West through the Portuguese, by way of an Italian traveller, Nicolo da Conti, who went on some of their voyages. Don Pedro, son of Portugal's King Joao I kept the resulting map of the world as a state secret.


    But elements of this map, drawn in 1428 and now lost, leaked out and were copied into other charts, says Menzies.


    These revealed parts of America and Australia before they were "rediscovered" by Europe's Christopher Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan and James Cook.


    "Every single one of them refers to maps he's either got with him or seen before he set sail," Menzies told Reuters.


    "My argument is somebody must have drawn these maps before the Europeans got there. Who was it?"


    EUNUCH ADMIRALS


    For Menzies the answer is Admiral Zheng He, a Grand Eunuch who commanded seven voyages of exploration from 1403 to 1433.


    In huge many-masted ships, the largest four times the size of Columbus's Santa Maria, the Chinese made increasingly ambitious tours of Indonesia and the southern Asian coastline.


    Historians agree that the fleet reached east Africa and may have rounded the Cape of Good Hope.


    Menzies says the 107-strong armada of the sixth voyage of 1421-3 went further, reaching Latin America, the Caribbean and Australia, circumnavigating the globe a century before Magellan.


    Wherever they went, split into four flotillas, they left porcelain, votive offerings and wrecks, he says.


    "There are 10,000 pieces of evidence," he said.


    "It's so blindingly obvious now that it's not Columbus. How he's got away with it for so long mystifies me," he added.


    He says the honour should go to two of Zheng He's fellow eunuch admirals, Heng-Bao and Zhou-Man, who continued the sixth voyage after Zheng He returned early to China.


    A starting point for Menzies' thesis is a 1424 map of Europe and the Atlantic that he says shows Puerto Rico and Guadeloupe nearly 70 years before 1492.


    His identification is backed by Carol Urness, Emeritus Curator of the James Ford Bell Library at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, where the "Pizzigano" map is held.


    "I think he has made a very good argument for those identifications for the 1424 map," she told Reuters.


    "Now the question is whether the prototype for this map is a lost European map or is the Chinese map. That's going to be the harder leap."


    Gillian Hutchinson, Curator of the History of Cartography at London's National Maritime Museum, said she was unconvinced.


    "It shows that people knew that there were islands out into the Atlantic, but it doesn't necessarily mean they can be identified with any island we know of," she said.


    Menzies, who plans to publish his findings in a book, will attempt to answer some of those questions before an invited audience on March 15 at London's Royal Geographical Society.


    Whatever the truth of his claims, a worldwide audience is guaranteed: "I can show without any doubt whatsoever that the whole world was charted long before the Europeans set sail."

    Keep up-to-date with what's going on in the UK and around the world with the top headlines and breaking news from Yahoo and other publishers.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

  • #2
    What about the Vikings?
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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    • #3
      's neither the Chinese nor the Vikings, but the ancient Phonecians that first circumnavigated the globe, and had contact with the tribes living on the North American continent.

      But, the Chinese leadership and government, ever eager to put themself at the forefront of the world stage is no doubt loving this bit of news...lol

      -=Vel=-
      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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      • #4
        Chinese? yeah right! It has already been proven that the Vikings got there first (after the native Americans), and there is some evidence that the Phoenicians got there millenia before them even.
        Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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        • #5
          What about the Vikings?
          The Vikings were the first Europeans who discovered America.
          However I have no doubt that other civilizations discovered it before them - Phonecians, Chinese...
          There were countless theories about this subject and I also heard this Chinese theory years ago (so it's really nothing new).

          But Columbus' discovery was far too important for the world.
          He did discover America but he wasn't the first one

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          • #6
            Do you have a source, Vel? It strikes me as rather implausible that these Mediteranean ships could cross the Atlantic, much less circum-navigate the world...

            What about the Vikings?
            They didn't get much further South than the NE US.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

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            • #7
              Don't know about anything on the net, and didn't look....but if you own a copy of Buckminster Fuller's "Critical Path" there's a section in it that outlines the theory.

              -=Vel=-
              The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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              • #8
                (so it's really nothing new).
                It is fairly new, actually. I've never seen this theory seriously considered in academic circles. Apparantly, this guy has the smoking gun.

                But Columbus' discovery was far too important for the world.
                But it seems probable that Colombus et al. relied on Zheng He's maps.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

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                • #9
                  Don't know about anything on the net
                  The whole idea of Phonecians discovering America isn't really so dumb.
                  I saw a documentary on this on the Discovery and scientists had good evidence to show.

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                  • #10
                    Nothing Bucky Fuller ever put in any of his books is dumb....but then, I'm admittedly biased....some of his patents and inventions from the 40's are ahead of their time TODAY!

                    -=Vel=-
                    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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                    • #11
                      Does it really matter if they did or didn't? As Juggler said, it was Columbus that made the important "discovery" - the discovery that opened up the new world permanently.

                      Apart from a few revisions in history books does it have any real implications on the modern world view?
                      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                      • #12
                        But it seems probable that Colombus et al. relied on Zheng He's maps
                        How so? Columbus didn't even know about the Americas when he set sail. He based his journey on a version of the world that was 10 000 miles too small and didn't have an intervening land mass between Europe and Asia. If he had maps that showed a circumnavigation of the globe then why was he so confused?

                        BTW, note that nobody's really convinced the maps he may or may not have linked to parts of the New World are, in actual fact, Zheng He's.

                        "Now the question is whether the prototype for this map is a lost European map or is the Chinese map. That's going to be the harder leap"
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

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                        • #13
                          Bah, you guys are no fun!

                          Besides pure historical interest, it opens up lots of cool what-if type questions and whatnot.

                          Does it really matter if they did or didn't?
                          Again, apparantly Colombus' discoveries relied upon the discoveries of Zheng He and his fellow admirals.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • #14
                            Zheng He's voyages are of great interest, but the most dubious claim here is that he managed to round Cape Horn, perhaps the most dangerous passage on the planet. Chinese sailing vessels were certainly advanced for their time, but I don't think they can compare with the maneuverability of Euro ships a full century of intense exploration and improvement later.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

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                            • #15
                              How so? Columbus didn't even know about the Americas when he set sail. He based his journey on a version of the world that was 10 000 miles too small and didn't have an intervening land mass between Europe and Asia. If he had maps that showed a circumnavigation of the globe then why was he so confused?
                              I'd guess that the maps had changed over time, portions have been cut off, etc.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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