World spins on claim China discovered America

[Goingonit]

Boring. Many people discovered America in turn. Like that Irish monk Brendan, who apparently got there in the 6th century.

Zheng He may or may not have reached America, but it makes absolutely no difference.

[Urban Ranger]

If you bothered to read the comments I quoted, it appears that Brendan did not go to the Americas.

[Urban Ranger]

A friend of mine once wondered, why is that some design found on Mexican earthware bears such a striking semblence to the Chinese dragon design?

Of course, it can be sheer coincidence.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Fiera
What's this Piri Reis map mystery, Chris?

Ade gave some good info on the map, I can add it was found in a butcher shop in Athens, as a wall decoration a hundred years ago!



Some say it's a fake, but who knows?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Zheng He's voyages are of great interest, but the most dubious claim here is that he managed to round Cape Horn, perhaps the most dangerous passage on the planet. Chinese sailing vessels were certainly advanced for their time, but I don't think they can compare with the maneuverability of Euro ships a full century of intense exploration and improvement later.

IIRC, Chinese ships had water-tight compartments. Wouldn't this be more important for getting around the Cape Horn than maneuverability?

[KrazyHorse]

The short answer is "no".

A slightly longer answer would be to direct you to descriptions of Cape Horn. All the water-tight compartments in the world aren't going to help you if you run aground in the type of seas endemic to the Cape.

Even when traversing the Cape had become almost routine sailors still were describing it as hell on Earth. I'm not saying that it would be impossible to do so, just that no sailor in his right mind would have done it in a 15th century Chinese oceangoing vessel.

[KrazyHorse]

I can see a possibility of Zheng crossing the Pacific and dropping anchor on the west coast of the New World, but it seems odd that there would be no official documentation of this voyage. IIRC his voyages to eastern Africa were well-documented.

[Velociryx]

Guys, the reason the Phonecian connection bears closer examination is that the galleys from the Med would not have had to go on the open sea....if such a journey had been made, it would no doubt have been a LONG journey, and probably with a fleet of ships, rather than just a small contingent. They'd have had to hug the continents, round the tip of Africa, trace Asia to Japan, thence to the Aleutians and down the North American coast.

The interesting thing (and one of the most compelling bits of evidence) is that many of the tribes along that very path make woven baskets Phonecian style (triangular hatching) rather than the cross hatch style common in all other N. Amer tribes (those further inland). There are other bits of evidence as well, but I don't have my sources close at hand, and that was the one that stuck out in my mind.

I'm thinking they coulda done it, and TALK about an epic adventure!....

-=Vel=-

[Fiera]

Thanks, Chris and Ade!

But perhaps the Piri Reis map is not so great a mystery after all, we do know that ancient and middle ages map makers used to make up the parts that had yet to be discovered, like they always used to include a continent called "Terra Australis" just because they thought "it had to be there".

[Chris 62]

The real mystery is that it shows what Anartica looks like without ice, which was confirmed by US sonar soundings in the 1960s!

[KrazyHorse]

It also joins SA to Antarctica if I'm reading it correctly.

[Lonestar]

Don't forget....

The Crusaders!

What? Have I flipped my lid?

Short answer "Maybe".

My History Prof discussed how the Aztecs discribed Quatezcoatol the "First time" he visited Mesoamerica. White, Bearded, and he wore a Red Cross on his clothing. (doesn't say if the background was white). Supposebly, he arrived in "The Year of the One Reed", and said he would return when the YotOR came around again. The Aztec calender is a cycle, like the Chinese, and one "Year of the One Reed" puts it amazingly close to the crusades.

Interesting.


I personally doubt the Phoenicians made it to the New World, Thor Heyerdal not withstanding. But there is plenty of evidence, on both sides of the atlantic, that Africans had made it across before Columbus did. (Spaniards noted "Negro settlements" in Panama long before Spanish colonies were established.)

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It also joins SA to Antarctica if I'm reading it correctly.

Or it's just the southern portion of SA, twisted around. Not a particularly satisfying explanation, but it is the current "establishment" position on the issue.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't know....even I would be able to tell the difference between sailing East and sailing South.

[Fiera]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It also joins SA to Antarctica if I'm reading it correctly.

Yes, that's what I read too, that's why I thought Piri Reis was just making up the coastline south of what had already been discovered in 1513.

I bet some Spanish maps around the same year show similar coastline shapes.