Iowa proposes making english the official state language

[Ramo]

We would be spending tens of billions of dollars to cater to the needs of around 21 million people. At that price, I think that they can be inconvenienced just a little.

Source, please.

We would be spending tens of billions to institute the dual language system that Ramo advocated earlier in the thread. I'm presuming that it would be similar in structure to Canada's. Hence my cost estimate.

Most forms would be in the national level for Canada, if I'm not mistaken. Over here, it's at the state and local level.

The only way to seriously get them to learn English, as soon as possible IS to screw them in the short term. It makes it economically important then to learn the language.

What about the more elderly? Hell, what about people in their 20's? Not everyone can learn a language rapidly.

[Ramo]

Why not have it as one of the English lessons for immigrants as we discussed earlier? I think it would be worth it.

We're working under the premise that the lessons didn't work too well. If the lessons did work, they would be English speakers (and would have no need for a Spanish form).

[Imran Siddiqui]

What about the more elderly? Hell, what about people in their 20's? Not everyone can learn a language rapidly.

Well, they can try.

Nothing works without some incentive... and making English official is the kick in the pants that is needed.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo
Look, if they can't get by without English, what's it to you? Obviously, there are large Hispanic communities that fulfill their needs.

Thats the problem. You are creating a mini country within a country. A community of people who dont speak the language of the people who live outside that community. Wheres all the unity you communists are always going on about?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ramo


We're working under the premise that the lessons didn't work too well. If the lessons did work, they would be English speakers (and would have no need for a Spanish form).

So we are working under the premise that people cannot learn a new language even to a basic standard?

If people want to live and work in another country they have to learn, no matter how hard it is. They should just keep going to classes until such point that they can speak the language.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
Source, please.

For which part?

The cost estimate is based on the cost of Canada's duel langauge system from 1980 to 1990 which totaled 6.7 billion.

The guesstimate is based on the 1990 Census (if you know where I can see the results of the 2000 Census please tell me.) which stated that 97% of Americans spoke English "well" or "very well."

Most forms would be in the national level for Canada, if I'm not mistaken. Over here, it's at the state and local level.

Which in some cases doubles the State/city's printing budget from what it otherwise would have been.

[Ramo]

Well, they can try.

Nothing works without some incentive... and making English official is the kick in the pants that is needed.

The incentive is to get a much better job. If they're capable of learning English, I think that's incentive enough.

Thats the problem. You are creating a mini country within a country. A community of people who dont speak the language of the people who live outside that community.

And they chose to do so. What's wrong with free association?

Wheres all the unity you communists are always going on about?

Ask che. I'm an anarchist.

So we are working under the premise that people cannot learn a new language even to a basic standard?

If you give a person with a very rudimentary understanding of a language a bunch of technical jargon that's only used for his tax form, do you expect that to stick well?

If people want to live and work in another country they have to learn, no matter how hard it is.

Some people aren't bright enough in terms of language skills. Some people aren't old enough. There's a huge Hispanic community here. They don't have to learn to get by.

They should just keep going to classes until such point that they can speak the language.

I also believe so. But again, I'm not going to force anyone into doing that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The incentive is to get a much better job.

Yes, and making it offical will solidify that incentive.

I also believe so. But again, I'm not going to force anyone into doing that.

But I am .

[KrazyHorse]

The cost estimate is based on the cost of Canada's duel langauge system from 1980 to 1990 which totaled 6.7 billion.

In a country with about a 30 percent minority speaking French, yes. That averages to 670 million a year (canadian or american $, BTW?) or ~25$ per capita per annum. Not exactly peanuts, but not exactly mad amounts of money. With a much lower figure for non-Anglophones in the States, wouldn't the costs also be much lower?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo
And they chose to do so. What's wrong with free association?

You call it free association? If dont know english then they arent as free to associate with the rest of society are they?

Originally posted by Ramo


Ask che. I'm an anarchist.

Youre a loony.

[Ramo]

For which part?

The cost estimate is based on the cost of Canada's duel langauge system from 1980 to 1990 which totaled 6.7 billion.

Why should that imply the dual-language system is so much more expensive than an analagous single-language system.

Especially if the <3% figure is valid for Spanish-only speakers?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
Why should that imply the dual-language system is so much more expensive than an analagous single-language system.

It introduces costs and inefficencies that would not have been there otherwise.

Especially if the <3% figure is valid for Spanish-only speakers?

As I stated earlier, you really shouldn't be so prejudiced as to assume that the only people who don't know the language are Hispanic. There are signifigant minorities that are in the same boat of which the Chinese are one example.

[MrFun]

I believe one of the great things about humanity is its diversity.

Language is one of the components of any culture in any part of the world. So, isn't a country that declares one language to be official basically saying that it does not appreciate humanity's diversity to some extent?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yep, just like those evil European, anti-diversity countries .

[Ramo]

It introduces costs and inefficencies that would not have been there otherwise.

I didn't argue that a dual language system is more expensive than a single language system, just that the difference shouldn't be that signficant, particularly given that we're dealing with <3% of the population..

My point was, how am I supposed to compare the dual to single-language policy with only the dual figure?

As I stated earlier, you really shouldn't be so prejudiced as to assume that the only people who don't know the language are Hispanic.

Learn the meaning of "<" before ranting about "prejudice."

Which in some cases doubles the State/city's printing budget from what it otherwise would have been.

Explain.

Yes, and making it offical will solidify that incentive.

And it has the potential of screwing a lot of people over. A lowered wage isn't as diastrous as landing in prison for tax evasion or somesuch..

You call it free association? If dont know english then they arent as free to associate with the rest of society are they?

If they choose to associate with the rest of society, they can choose to learn English. The point is that it's their choice. Not yours or the state's.