How can people prefer National Socialism over Communism?

[Ecthy]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43320

Inspired by this Apolyton thread,I'm asking this question to all of you who replied "Nazi party" to one of the 50+ questions.

Someone asked

"If you had the choice between the Nazi Party and the Communist Party, which one would you vote? No abstaining, you have to decide for one."

To my surprise, several people gave answers like "Nazis probably", "If back then, Nazis" and "Communists would have messed things worse."

Since all of us know what hell the national socialists brought to so many peoples of Europe (and that includes my own people), I find it highly disgusting how there can be people who prefer an ultra-reactionary totalitarian authoritarian and anti-humanitarian regime, that is made of bigoted, racist polemy over a system that has economic equality of all people of a society to its goal. The reasons can't be lower than economic orientation (like "better be rich at the expense of a million dead than just as poor as the guys who would usually work for me" or so, I can't imagine anything else), or stubbornly capitalism-based burgeois upbringing, which makes me feel really sad about so-called advanced western society.

Given America had 2 big enemies before 1991, and those would be Nazi Germany and then the USSR... quite honest, which ones were the worst? Those going about killing and slaughtering in the name of racism and a reactionary oligarchy or those committing worldwide power-oriented policies (just as the US did) and had the survival as well as a fundamental amount of wealth for each citizen as their goal?

But then, people might say "Hey, we're not talking about the USSR's KP, but about the Communist Party in Germany back in the 30's!!!". What the heck? How can you even suspect that the German communists had worse goals than their colleagues at the other side of the economic spectre? Even if they had messed the economy worse than it was (and they'd never have done that, they'd just have united with the USSR and stuff, who knows ), it just couldn't go any worse than it turned out in the end.

To be quite honest, I'm shocked. Confess and justify!!

[faded glory]

Communism is just as bad as National Socialism (dont you mean Fascism?)

I would probably go Nazi tho. Simply because of COmmunist harsh policies. Made you feel like ****, and you could be one of 20,000 people every year forcibly sent to siberia, to "Settle" it. Sure the nazi's were bad. But comon?

[faded glory]

I hardly consider communism a humanitarian regime..


Ever seen a bread line at your local store???? Fixed prices?

[DinoDoc]

Re: How can people prefer National Socialism over Communism?

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Those going about killing and slaughtering in the name of racism and a reactionary oligarchy

This is different from the early days of the USSR in what way exactly?

[BeBMan]

Re: Re: How can people prefer National Socialism over Communism?

Originally posted by DinoDoc
This is different from the early days of the USSR in what way exactly?

Well of course there were millions of murdered people in the USSR under Stalin too.

However, the Holocaust has its unique characteristics, is is the first genocide made with "industrial perfection". Also the clear decision to exterminate all Jews under Nazi rule (final solution - Wannsee Konferenz) cannot be compared IMO with mass murdering in other countries. You can say that plays no role for the victims, but I think it was a new dimension of terror...

[Drekkus]

National Socialism is inherently bad. It glorifies hate of others and pursues the death of those who are not wanted.

The communist regime in the USSR was just as bad, but that doesn't mean that communism is inherently bad. It doesn't work, but it's not a hatefull ideoligy like nazism.

[Zoid]

Nazism/fascism and Soviet-style communism (ie stalinism) is equally bad. But the question is absurd, it´s like asking: If you had to choose between being blind and being deaf which should you choose? Or if you must eat either a big bowl of snot or a big bowl of fieces, which should you choose?

How come I´m not at all surprised that FG choose nazism?

Originally posted by Faded Glory

I would probably go Nazi tho. Simply because of COmmunist harsh policies. Made you feel like ****, and you could be one of 20,000 people every year forcibly sent to siberia, to "Settle" it. Sure the nazi's were bad. But comon?

Harsh policies? You say yourself that Nazism is as bad as communism. And what´s the difference between being sent to Siberia and being sent to Treblinka?

Ever seen a bread line at your local store????

Ever seen the bread line in Theresienstadt or Auschwitz?

[David Floyd]

Oh if I were a Jew I'd probably pick Communism (although I might just shoot myself before pick either in that scenario ), but since I'm basically of English descent - a race the Nazis had no problem with, I figure I'd basically be OK.

Since I'd be OK, my next step is looking at numbers of murders committed by each regime.

Let's be "generous" and say the Nazis killed 12 million. That's but a drop in the bucket compared to how many millions were killed by Stalin and Mao.

Further, under Nazism, there were chances for economic advancement - not so under communism, unless of course you were one of the societal elite, ie a high ranking Pary member

Being German, though, Ecthelion, I can understand why you have problems with this rational, but to me, communism is much, much worse.

[Drekkus]

Etchelion,

Are we talking about what ideoligy you would prefer, or where you would have prefered to be living at the time?

[Ecthy]

Floyd - it's not only the numbers of people they killed, also the way they did it and the intention...

Stalin and the like accepted the dtarvation of many many people in oder to industrialis, to focus manpower onto manufacturing steel and such... Hitler and pals did it intentionally and with industrial perfection, as BeBro stated, just in order to get rid of supposedly inferior people.

FG - one in 20 to be sent to Siberia? OVer at us you would have been one in 10 being defamed by your neighbours and sent to a concentration camp. Apart from that, how do you want to know that one in 20 East Europeans was sent to Siberia? That's a slight exaggeration of the facts

Kamrat X - why are they equally bad? Just the fact the rulers of the East European regimes that called themselves communist (but weren't) killed many people doesn't mean that so did the communist party in Germany back in the 30s. I'm sure the question in The Question Thread had a certain goal, namely to stress the situation in Germany in the '30s. And even if not, I think that is a very interesting point to consider.

Imagine you're a German worker in 1932. Do you vote for those who promise you bread and work, or for those who promise you bread, work, racial purity in your society, worldwide revenge for the 1919 debacle, and kick your Jewish neighbours out of their social environment?

As I have just put it, Nazis might indeed sound more seducing, but there's always the fact they were going to state a war and never made it secret. The only time when Europe might have been allowed to think there wasn't going to be war was in '83 of all, since in that year Hitler achieved many territorial demand goals without a gunshot. Apart from that, why would you want your country in a war against great powers?

[Drekkus]

once more:

Ecthelion,

Are we talking about what ideoligy you would prefer, or where you would have prefered to be living at the time?

makes a difference.

[Juggernaut]

People are tragic.

[Solly]

I'd prefer to be a Nazi than some illogical communist.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Drekkus
Etchelion,

Are we talking about what ideoligy you would prefer, or where you would have prefered to be living at the time?

That's actually a very interesting question. I think each of us shuld evaluate both cases.

I, for one, would say that back then I would have gone right int othe trap and voted National Socialist, there is no way to deny that. I can be quite open for polemy, and people of today who claim they're so resistant only do that because they think they have learned a lot from their history lessons. But when it coems to responsibility, they act in just the same ways. Noone living today can claim he would have resisted the urge. Not YOU, either! (not Drekkus personally but YOU that you are reading this!)

In retrospective, the Communists wouldn't have done it worse, there was no way to do it worse. And THOSE communists, gfighting for the ideals of Luxemburg and Liebknecht not Stalin, would have done a great job for the people of Central and East Europe, I am sure.

My own views seem to tend to the left nowadays. And though I despise the work that was done by so-called socialist forces in the time from 1945-1990 in Central Europe and from the 20s on in the USSR, I still think that real socialism can exist without suffering. The way that leads there is stony, and the people that live in our democracies are not responsible enough to take that way, and that probably includes myself.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Boddington's
I'd prefer to be a Nazi than some illogical communist.

Killing 50 million people in a war that would probably be lost in the end is logical to you?

I'll remember that one...