How Many Racists Does It Take to Screw in a Lightbulb?

[Dr Strangelove]

What was that song from the musical "South Pacific", the one about having to teach bigotry to kids at a young age?


The other day my seven year old son was watching a program where some guy was trying to fake an Australian accent. The guy kept saying "Oy" over and over again. Now my kid is trying to imitate him, but the hilarious thing is that from him it sounds like a Jewish "Oy". He repeatedly says "Oy" this and "Oy" that and people just stare at him. It's hilarious. Sometime this week I may take him aside and explain it all to him. It ain't gonna be easy.

[KrazyHorse]

That's a great story, Doc.

[Sikander]

Regarding the American definition of Asian:

I have never seen a tendency for Americans to define Asian any differently than either:

1) The common definition (adjectival construct) of the big continent minus the part which calls itself Europe.

2) Of the big continent including Europe which is also called Eurasia.

Thus Pakistan, India, SE Asia, most of Central Asia, and East Asia are all in the mix, with Iran and Asia Minor and the former Soviet Republics and Siberia being on the cusp for those who subtract Europe from the equation.

Now it is true that Americans have more day to day contact with people of East Asian descent than South Asian descent which IIRC is more common in Britain. Thus the term Asian is going to bring to mind a different picture for the average American than the Average Britain. Please note however that East Asia is as populous as South Asia, and that neither view is really 'more correct' than the other.

As for race and racism, they go hand in hand. The more you believe in the idea of race, the more you are susceptible to the ideas of racism. This cuts both ways, some of the worst racists I have ever met were ethnic studies types whose sole occupation seemed to be creating ethnic friction in as many ways as possible. Most people are not afraid to point the finger at (some) skinheads for being racists, and many are well aware of the racist who is invisible to himself. Few are willing to call a spade a spade however when the offensive person is a member of a minority racial group which is famous for being persecuted, especially when that person uses the term racist like a weapon which is biologically attuned to only effect caucasians.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why shouldn't your race be considered at any time? Ignoring someone's race is pretty bad, also. You're saying to someone that part of who they are isn't worth recognition. Ignoring our differences is not superior to recognizing and clebrating our differences.

Vive la difference. We would be f*cking boring if we all looked like one particular group of people.

Growing up in a racist society, you are taught, over and over, certain assumptions about other groups. These become part of your core belief system, some of which may be so deeply ingrained that you don't even realize that you have them. The assumptions you make just seem natural.

I believe it is impossible for anyone to grow up in a racist society without being deformed by that sick system. By default, we are racists. We can educate ourselves and try and overcome these inherent asumptions. Even knowing, however, that you have racist attitudes is not necessarily enough. It may be that mere knowledge is enough to motivate a person to overcome those beliefs, but often it seems, it takes interaction to really break down those attitudes.

BTW, again, complex social issues can only be defined using a dictionary if you are a complete fool.

Yes, race is an arbitrary social distinction between humans. So is American and British and what we think the roles of men and women are. Their arbitrariness does not make these distcintions less real. Money is only an agreement among people, yet no one argues that it doesn't exist. Race exists, because we agree that it does, we act like it does, and among people, that's what's important.

There is a difference between culture and race. Culture affects behavior directly. Race does not. A black child may act like other black children because the society he grows up in encourages hm to do so. A Chinese-American may act and sound like any white American, however, would feel strange and foreign among native Chinese. Race is merely our genetic makeup. Culture determines how we respond to that makeup.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Goingonit
Tingkai:

5. Your race should not be considered at any time.

8. It is wrong to recognize or identify someone's 'race'.

9. It is not my responsibility to concern myself with the problems of other races.

12. Institutional racism and individual prejudice are morally equivalent.

13. It is a citizens duty to fight racism at all levels of society.

14. Mentioning race just reinforces racism.

Those all do, to some extent.

Interesting. So if I answer no to #12, 13 or 14, does that mean I'm for or against affirmative action? Or put another way, if you are against affirmative action, how do you answer the above questions?

[KrazyHorse]

That's funny, because I'm against racial- (or gender-) based "affirmative action", yet I got anti-racist.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Sikander
Few are willing to call a spade a spade however when the offensive person is a member of a minority racial group which is famous for being persecuted, especially when that person uses the term racist like a weapon which is biologically attuned to only effect caucasians.

Sounds to me like you're applying your own feelings to everyone. I have no problem telling a person they are being racist, regardless of their race.

I would accept that your statement may be true for white people in North America, but the reason that this attitude exists is because these people have not come to terms with racism.

[Ecowiz Returns]

I think that after the first Human Genome Project results, we no longer can say that a clear bio-fisiologic distintion exists between human beings.

Having the Humankind separated by races is as accurate as separating by heights, toenail form, number of teeth... whatever stupic classification norm one may find.

Actually the point is that we are all different and no one gives a damn about it, until someone decides to classify that difference.

Let's take this small example:
Me and my brother we are... well, brothers. So pretty much equal: same parents, same familly background, therefore, same cultural background, same color of skin.
Now, I'm left-handed, he is right-handed. Some years ago people would look at me and say I was cursed.
My favourite football club is Portugal is Sporting, his is Benfica. You can imagine how every now and then this diference is of the utmost importance.

The point is that, even me and my brother are different (go figure...) and we don't give a damn about it.

Why should we focus so much in other equally insignificant differences.

Our diferences is what make our existence richer. We are all limited, so we all can complement each others' limitations, because we are diferent. The point is that, there is no need to label those differences nor to tag people according to them. We are neither better nor worse because of those labels or tags. We remain limited Human Beings.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sikander
Few are willing to call a spade a spade however . . . .

Nice choice of words, Sik.

[Az]

what's a spade?

[RUFFHAUS 8]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Not racist.

At my school, the white anglo saxons were in the minority...
So that by itself really discouraged racism.

How did that discourage it? Racism is not a trait exclusive to people of white Anglo-Saxon orgin, in spite of how deliciously PC that notion is.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Oxford defines racism as: 1 (prejudice based on belief in superiority of particular race. 2 Antagonism towards other races.

The Encarta dictionary lists similar definitions, but for the second it states: The belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities and that some races are inherently superior or inferior.

Using the Encarta definition, Caligastia is a racist.

To me racism is a hateful thing. I dont hate anyone because of their race, I just state the facts as I see them. I am not predjudiced toward anyone because of their race. I am just as likely to accept you as a friend no matter what race you are and I dont have a problem living with other races. I live in New York City - one of the most racially diverse places on earth. Do you think I would stay here if I was a bigot? I have never had a problem with relocating. I have moved to different countries and continents several times in my life, so if I disliked other races so much I would move.

The Encarta definition is incomplete. Any definition of racism should mention hate.

[Sirotnikov]

I don't define myself as a racist, but raving liberals might.

Bet then again, I have a slightly differnt definition of racism. Look below.

So here goes - things I agree with:

I dont assume, I believe what I believe because of the research I have done and because of my life experiences. Racists just hate others because they look different.

I am against affirmative action
I believe one should be proud of one's race and identify with one's culture to some extent. Diversity makes our society great

Why shouldn't your race be considered at any time? Ignoring someone's race is pretty bad, also. You're saying to someone that part of who they are isn't worth recognition. Ignoring our differences is not superior to recognizing and clebrating our differences.

Yes, race is an arbitrary social distinction between humans. So is American and British and what we think the roles of men and women are. Their arbitrariness does not make these distcintions less real. Money is only an agreement among people, yet no one argues that it doesn't exist. Race exists, because we agree that it does, we act like it does, and among people, that's what's important.

The rest of that excellent post by che.

Few are willing to call a spade a spade however when the offensive person is a member of a minority racial group which is famous for being persecuted, especially when that person uses the term racist like a weapon which is biologically attuned to only effect caucasians.

Racism is not a trait exclusive to people of white Anglo-Saxon orgin, in spite of how deliciously PC that notion is.

To me racism is a hateful thing. I dont hate anyone because of their race, I just state the facts as I see them. I am not predjudiced toward anyone because of their race. I am just as likely to accept you as a friend no matter what race you are and I dont have a problem living with other races.

Disagree with :

The more you believe in the idea of race, the more you are susceptible to the ideas of racism.

Wow. this is like the first time we disagree.

People are often racist, even when they disagree with races. The idea of racism is thinking your race/culture/ethnicity superior and being agressive/discriminating others. This often happens to so called "non-racists" over different cultures/nationalities/races.

Generally I don't believe in the term "racist".

I believe in the term "agressive" or "discriminating".

Some people will discriminate others for what ever category. Be it race, nationality, culture or political opinion. Those are "racists".

And some people won't.

Liberals dont want to have a concrete definition of racism, that way they can use it to tar and feather more people.

Often, very true.

It's like using the term fascist on whom ever supports measures that give more security at the price of discomfort or some limited freedom (like checking one's bags on entry to public places and so on)

[Sirotnikov]

Sorry for english mistakes

Does it show that I haven't slept for 36 hours or so?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
what's a spade?

The word can be used as an derrogatory term for Black people.

I don't know the etymology of the phrase, but it means being afraid to say things as they really are.

It also means a type of shovel, and is one of the suits in a deck of cards (not tarrot). The derrogatory usage comes from the later usage of the word, from the phrase, "Black as the Ace of Spades."