Milosevic on Trial

[DinoDoc]

What effect does a recent decision by the Hague have on the Milosevic trial?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Tudjman was very happy with the Nazis; and his party certainly identified with Ustasha.

The Tudjman quote is from a book he wrote in 1989. It is mentioned in this article:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/yugoslavia.html

The author also mentions the fact that Izetbegovic, another Western darling, had started his political career as a Nazi activist.

Ok... on the translation... I gave a comment in the other thread, but basically he was focusing on Serbia which was totally weird for Yugoslavian public life thus far in which that was not permitted.

And on the author I would like to see his reference to the Tudjman book for that comment. I know that tudjman was no saint but this is not a sane comment to give, I'd prefer if he gave a name of the book and a reference where can one read it at the end of the article or somewhere. As for thge otehr facts there I already addressed them, apart from the flag and the anathem the flag goes back 1000 years and the anathem 200 years. Unfortunatley the Fascist regime that was there during 1941 -1945 used it but so did some of the Croatian communists and partisans that fought against them under Tito (a Croat too ) - who united the whole country after the war again. But that is ommitted of course.

Asfor the party they were a mixup of former communists and nationalists but surely did not take pride or anything similar in the Nazi regime during WWII.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What effect does a recent decision by the Hague have on the Milosevic trial?

I thought this related that an individual country cannot prosecute a politically protected person on its own court. This has to be done in the Hague itself -international court- not national.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
I thought this related that an individual country cannot prosecute a politically protected person on its own court.

Not if what Mercator says is true.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Not if what Mercator says is true.

Didn't Kolpo comment that this decision is regarding a Belgian trial.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Natan
I guess you think that the 200,000 missing Muslims and Catholics went to the same place as the millions of missing Jews?

Implicitly accusing someone of Holocaust denial is not even remotely funny; it earns you my 'Jerk of the Month' badge for February.

You will find most Holocaust deniers in the USA, and probably the highest number of racialists in Israel, so I suggest you start cleaning at your own turf.

Precisely because the Holocaust happened, it has been tempting ever since to invent somewhat similar stories that did *not* happen. Saddam´s baby killers in Kuwait were bogus, and it was precisely the same agency (Rudder/Finn) who invented the Serb mass murder/mass rape horror stories. That most of the public is not aware of that is no excuse for repeating nonsense for which there exists no credible source.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
1) True, but shouldn't Kosovo had a 'republic' like status now? It had it's own legal system as far as I can remember under 1974 constitution, and a member in Yugoslavian presidency. Within SRJ it had none of these. ?

Well as soon as you give Dalmatia the status of the Republic.
As far as I am concerned, we should have let them go a long time ago. TOo expensive to combat drug traffic and arms smuggling.
Just tell me an honest question. Would YOU like Croatia to have Kosovo as a part, either as autonomous region or republic

2) I thought they had a right to seperate after a referendum that was positive. But do you have a link or something? ?

sure, nations, not republics
therefore, alongside the 1974 constitution SFRY should have been broken up alongside ethnic lines
there was a dichotomy between the statehood of republics and the right to self determination of nations (serbs, croats, etc.). nationalities had no such right (albanians were in this category)

i am sure you can find a SFRY constitution

3) I would like a link on this too, I thought that the number of Serbs in Croatia is much greater 150000 as you say. Basically as if 2/3 left. ?

these are preliminary results of the census 2001. i read it in some croatian paper. will provide link once it is online www.dzs.hr

Well I haven't heard that line have you got a link but I don't like him either.

well how about this one 'NDH was a result of the historical aspirations of croatian nation'
top notch

And as for Kosovo speach for than Yugoslavian situation was quite 'protective' and had an accent on the Serbian national strenght. Like this

Through the play of history and life, it seems as if Serbia has, precisely in this year, in 1989, regained its state and its dignity and thus has celebrated an event of the distant past which has a great historical and symbolic significance for its future.

for example

That was totallw weird for Yugoslavian communist "bratstvo I jedinstvo" - brotherhood and unity moto. Where publicly a republic pride and exceptionality displays were not allowd.
That was a public start.

um, i guess he is guilty for croatian maspok too?
i mean, at the time of the first croatian nationalistic revival he was a bank manager and 'liberals' were at power in serbia

[Fidel]

he just declared that except for schroder and blair, he will call 'everybody'
this is going to be interesting

[player1]

Hmmm...

Instead of making pointless discussions (I doubt that anyone can convince anybody), why not comment todays speeches of Milosevic.

I know that it's a thruth.

I live there.




P.S.
Personally I would want him relesed form accusation for genocide in Bosnia, that would make my people not genocide nation. Which is untue (propaganda). There are many minorities leaving in Serbia, and nobody thouched them, ever. On the other hand there are barely any Serbs in Croatia (most were driven away in Storm operation: THAT'S A GENOCIDE)
If he is guily by command, it means that there is at lest several thousands of guilty people. Which makes my natuion a genocide nation.


On the other hand if he comes back in Serbia (YU), he should be responsible (and judged) for corruprion, electon fraud and several other things.


P.P.S.
To others: Don't beleve everything you see on television. Foregn contries had their own iterests (like a good excuse for NATO bomards), and it's easy to make good & bad guys performance for television.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by LaRusso


Well as soon as you give Dalmatia the status of the Republic.
As far as I am concerned, we should have let them go a long time ago. TOo expensive to combat drug traffic and arms smuggling.
Just tell me an honest question. Would YOU like Croatia to have Kosovo as a part, either as autonomous region or republic

i definitley wouldn not want Kosovo to be a part that is for sure, not much gained apart from problems.

sure, nations, not republics
therefore, alongside the 1974 constitution SFRY should have been broken up alongside ethnic lines
there was a dichotomy between the statehood of republics and the right to self determination of nations (serbs, croats, etc.). nationalities had no such right (albanians were in this category)

i am sure you can find a SFRY constitution

I agree that Albanians did not have the right to secceed but I was thinking about nations like croats/ Slovenes they had the right I think we aggree on that too.

these are preliminary results of the census 2001. i read it in some croatian paper. will provide link once it is online www.dzs.hr

It is still not out yet but we will see what will be the results.

well how about this one 'NDH was a result of the historical aspirations of croatian nation'
top notch

I haven't heard this one either so far. Do you think that former director of FK Partizan would say that?

um, i guess he is guilty for croatian maspok too?
i mean, at the time of the first croatian nationalistic revival he was a bank manager and 'liberals' were at power in serbia

What 1971? Not that this acquits him of being in control of armed forces and paramilitary when the war started and onwards. Anyway I think his first day of defense went well, and I am really looking forward to see him calling all these foreign politicans and bringing forth the evidence that he has.

Personally I would want him relesed form accusation for genocide in Bosnia, that would make my people not genocide nation. Which is untue (propaganda). There are many minorities leaving in Serbia, and nobody thouched them, ever. On the other hand there are barely any Serbs in Croatia (most were driven away in Storm operation: THAT'S A GENOCIDE)
If he is guily by command, it means that there is at lest several thousands of guilty people. Which makes my natuion a genocide nation.

Well for genocide we will see what will he bring to his defense, and that it is untrue - during 1991-1995 on 1/3 of Croation territory there were only Serbs there, and so were in 49% of Serb controlled Bosnia until recently, everybody else was expelled or killed, now I read that there are people coming back. I think that an existance of a plan will be proven for that and I presume that Serbs will testify against Milosevic on all these counts. But we will see.

On Croatia as I earlier said 150 000 people packed up and left withing 5 days without being forced out and without major resistance either - they left as Croatian army was coming in- My view is that the Krajina leadership wanted to pull in SRJ in a full and officiall war with Croatia with this but Milosevic did not do it. Some good credit goes to him for that for sure.

[player1]

double post

[player1]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
On Croatia as I earlier said 150 000 people packed up and left withing 5 days without being forced out and without major resistance either - they left as Croatian army was coming in- My view is that the Krajina leadership wanted to pull in SRJ in a full and officiall war with Croatia with this but Milosevic did not do it.

Firsty, many people left Croatia at start of the war (not counting those 150000), and yes those people were FORCED to get out, some which stayed have instatly been accused as murders, and people wich stayed were most 50+ years old.
Second, in Krajna terrirory Serbes was high majority before the war.

These are much more then 150,000 regugess in Serbia (at least 3 times more).

Look cenzus at 1990.

And Serbs never voted at referndum since there was not an option to stay in Yugoslavia as Federation.

It is even today diffcult to go back in Crotia.
Has anybody seen Partizan vs Cibona basteball game in Zagreb.

That could never happen in Belgrade. I know that for sure.
Many Serbs ar much more tolerant then some Croatians.

[SIZE=1] Some good credit goes to him for that for sure.

Abadoning Serbs in Krajna was the WORST thing he did.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by player1


Firsty, many people left Croatia at start of the war (not counting those 150000), and yes those people were FORCED to get out, some which stayed have instatly been accused as murders, and people wich stayed were most 50+ years old.
Second, in Krajna terrirory Serbes was high majority before the war.

These are much more then 150,000 regugess in Serbia.

It is even today diffcult to go back in Crotia.
Has anybody seen Partizan vs Cibona basteball game in Zagreb.

That could never happen is Belgrade.
Many Serbs ar much more tolerant then some Croatians.



Abadoning Serbs in Krajna was the WORST thing he did.

many of those people left to Krajina itself in the hope of a better tommorrow in the way to return back as winners. But I agree that there were certainly cases where people were thrown out against their own will. As in Krajina befor the war it was 60% non Serbs vs 40 % Serbs. As for refugees there weer around 1million in 1993/1994 in Croatia from Croatai and Bosnia I am wandering why the muslims did not flee to "friendly" Serbia, even though Bosnian Croats betrayed them on the ground in the Bosnian war as well?

As for the match Ciboina Partisan - that is a shame for Croats. I guess that people frustrated by lack of money and low life went out and stressed out on Partisan. A shame definitley. But as from the difference of Belgrade public many of these have had friends and relatives killed in the war on our terrain, so the emotions still run high that is the reason for less tolerance.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by player1
To others: Don't beleve everything you see on television. Foregn contries had their own iterests (like a good excuse for NATO bomards), and it's easy to make good & bad guys performance for television.

You think we don't know that?

[player1]

Originally posted by paiktis22


You think we don't know that?

You (and several others) are exeption.