Milosevic on Trial

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I say get the bastard for life. His actions were direct violations of international law, and I think for once, we should say the genocide is wrong.

Isn´t genocide always wrong? Or is it just when it´s committed by so-called "socialists"? Is this really what you mean, Imran?

[Zoid]

paiktis, don´t you think that Milosevic should answer for his crimes against humanity? He is responsible, directly or indirectly, for some pretty awful acts of violence. I agree that the US, as usual, has their dirty hands in much of this, but Milosevic didn´t exactly need any help in his etnic cleansing.

If we compare this to Turkey, wouldn´t you want to see Ecevit tried for warmongering, etnic cleansing and just being generally unpleasent?

[Pekka]

I tried to study this subject (that war) some time ago and i found it very complicated. It's not black and white.
But still i find milo kind of gay. He's not a good person.
But i found NATO-actions also kind of gay.
Everybody in there was kind of gay. No one ruled. It's a matter of who was the greatest, king of gay. I think milo was.

[DinoDoc]

I feel dirty about agreeing with paiktis22 on any issue.

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Why did they disregard article 53?

Because they let sentimentality overcome the good sense and respect for international law that Europeans usually prize so highly in thier zeal to become the air force for a dope dealing, terrorist army formenting rebellion in a sovereign state.

After Croatia and Bosnia, they should have stayed out of Kosovo and watched another couple of hundred thousands displaced and thousands killed?

Considering the fact that the bombing made the humanitarian situation, yes. If that was truely what they cared about.

If Milosevic wanted to stop the clensing and signed the Ramboulet agreement the bombing would not have happened.

Milosevic was under no legal obligation to sign the Ramboulet agreement and NATO lacked the authority to force the issue.

[Natan]

Actually, I agree with Imran. I'd rather have had the trial in a different venue (Bosnian, Serbian, or Croatian court w/ death penalty), but Milosevic needs to face justice after what he did in Bosnia and Croatia. 200,000 murdered is an unbelievable number.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Because the blatant violation of international law that was the NATO Kosovo campaign is not being punished. I think that if you wish to take the credible moral highground in order to pontificate to the rest of the world then you should be more equitable in who you single out for condemnation for violations of international law.

Dino, have you morphed into a different entity? This is such a fair and reasonable -I am tempted to call it enlightened- view that I find it hard to trust my eyes.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
If Milosevic wanted to stop the clensing and signed the Ramboulet agreement the bombing would not have happened.

Rambouillet was a treaty that no leader of a souvereign state could have signed. It was about Yugoslavia giving up its souvereignity as a state. No one does that without losing a war. Rambouillet was designed to be impossible to accept for the Serbs. It was the same kind of unfair ultimatum we -Austrians- presented to the Serbs in 1914.

Rambouillet was just about giving NATO an excuse to attack. Madeleine Albright wanted to have that war.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
As for an orchestrated attempt - there was a plan to conquer and that is one of the thing that will be proven Milosevic was a man orcestrating it.

No one can conquer his own country. That they contested the breakup of Yugoslavia is an entirely different thing. Had Germany and the US not -very prematurely- recognized the new entities, it would have been seen as the civil war it really was. Milosevic never attacked a foreign country, and as to who was 'right' in the civil war, this issue is at least in doubt.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You can put your fingers in your ears if you want, but the proof is there, and the Albanians have been slaughtered.

Ehhh, to my knowledge they haven´t yet found any victims that were

-clearly Albanian,
-clearly non-combatant,
-clearly not killed by KLA/NATO.

In other words, there is no proof that Albanian civilians have, in fact, been slaughtered by the Yugoslavian Army.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by kolpo
By not accepting the by a Democratic referendum created independence of Kroatia and Bosnia had he heavily violated the international laws.

Ehhh, no again. You mix up national/international law. According to Yugoslavian law, the referendums were not legal, and certainly not binding. And international law had nothing to do with it, as long as that was a Yugoslavian issue.

What you say is that Lincoln should have recognized the Confederacy. But it is no surprise he didn´t, and this doesn´t make him a criminal.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Ehhh, to my knowledge they haven´t yet found any victims that were

-clearly Albanian,
-clearly non-combatant,
-clearly not killed by KLA/NATO.

In other words, there is no proof that Albanian civilians have, in fact, been slaughtered by the Yugoslavian Army.

Let's review facts:

-There was a Serbian army in Kosovo
-The KLA was not there prior to the appearance of said army (IIRC)
-There are mass graves filled with people in Albanian villages
-Serbs and Albanians don't like each other that much

Yes, I know that the KLA kills Serbs. But the Serbs also kill Albanians en masse.

Also note that the number of people found in mass graves outnumbers the KLA. They weren't all combatants.

I'm not going to call you a revisionist yet, but you're getting pretty close.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
paiktis, don´t you think that Milosevic should answer for his crimes against humanity?

Kamrat, if Milosevic did commit crimes against humanity, he should certainly answer for them. The question is if that was really the case. The second question is if a tribunal that is paid for by the Soros Foundation and the United States (mostly) and that is not allowed to look into violations committed by NATO should be considered unbiased.

[Comrade Tribune]

Re: I feel dirty about agreeing with paiktis22 on any issue.

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Because they let sentimentality overcome the good sense and respect for international law that Europeans usually prize so highly in thier zeal to become the air force for a dope dealing, terrorist army formenting rebellion in a sovereign state.

Perfectly well said. I never thought I would agree with all posts of Dino in a thread. Only one objection: Sentimentality only as far as the general public was concerned. Otherwise, the reasons were

-Germany demonstrating it is again a world power (and building up an area of influence in the Balkans).

-USA generally disliking the fact that Milosevic was

a) independent-minded,
b) a socialist,
c) friendly to Russia

and also wishing to increase its influence in the area with a large new military base in Kosovo (aptly named Bondsteel).

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Goingonit
-There are mass graves filled with people in Albanian villages

Ehhh, no, they didn´t find much, if any, evidence of cold-blooded murder committed by the Yugoslavians in Kosovo. This is why there is not a separate trial for Kosovo: Evidence is too thin.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Ehhh, no, they didn´t find much, if any, evidence of cold-blooded murder committed by the Yugoslavians in Kosovo. This is why there is not a separate trial for Kosovo: Evidence is too thin.

Well they certainly found evidence of large numbers of people having been killed by something. Who do you think it is, then?