Announcement

**SlowwHand** · January 23, 2002, 11:39

You're beginning to make me nervous, Boddington.

**Solly** · January 23, 2002, 12:21

Why?

I'm a pragmatist, sometimes that makes me pro-US and sometimes anti-US. That is unlike these incessant whiners who always need something to ***** at the US at.

Whoever said it, that was a good point about the American spies in China. We heard none of this leftist clap-trap then did we...

**Roland** · January 23, 2002, 12:27

The pragmatist troll...

**Saint Marcus** · January 23, 2002, 12:32

I'm a pragmatist, sometimes that makes me pro-US and sometimes anti-US.

A pragmatist my ass. Just two faced. One day you're more anti American then I am, and the next day you're Shrubya's house pet.

**SlowwHand** · January 23, 2002, 12:52

Oh blow it out your ear, Marcus.
You're one of the people who make Americans like me not give a rat's ass what you say, because it's always negative.

If Boddington's (or anyone else, paiktis for example) slams the USA, I might listen.
IF it's not just a constant barrage of negatives.

It's like saying something is important.
If all is important, nothing is important.
And if only negative sarcasm is voiced, I discount entirely all opinions by the individual.

**Solly** · January 23, 2002, 13:44

Originally posted by Saint Marcus

A pragmatist my ass. Just two faced. One day you're more anti American then I am, and the next day you're Shrubya's house pet.

I'm only against the US if they doing something wrong.

Ditto for the EU.

**Chris 62** · January 23, 2002, 13:56

More proof that lawyers aern't really bright...

Well, well, Rollie, still trying?
I'm surprised you still bother, but then you have been wrong so much, why not add more, eh?

Originally posted by Roland
You know, or more likely, you don't know, that our Haider has gone totally gaga ? He's acting in a way now that makes dubya look like a really bright fellow. Which is interesting because...

I often find it interseting that you euros dislike Bush so strongly, what is this based on?
It sure isn't his record, so it must be something else.
Could it be that you have no thoughts that are your own, but mindlessly follow the "he's republican, he must be bad" line?

That's a Haider quote!

I'm sure that has meaning to you, and I'm glad you enjoy it.

Goebbels speak.

No, I said that.
Do pay attention, it tiresome to have to spell things out this way.

Freisler speak.

No, I said that again.
And I'm also aware who this fellow was, the judge at the trial for the Hitler's assasinations.

Can you explain, without your normal bullsh!t, how these individuals could possibly be innocent?

Didn't think so, so now your just trying to rile me up.

Nice try sonny, but as usual, your an amature.

The stench of defeatism.

I couldn't understand why you wrote this the first time, and it still doesn't make sense.
Unlike you and a lot of others, I said how this would go from the begining, and it hasd gone this way.
The only defeat is for you bleeding heart hand wringers.
Why don't you tell us how this war has no chance of being won again?
I could more laughs (I mean besides what your drival noramlly provides)

No confidence, no faith.

Excuse me?
I said from the start we would win.
Pay attention, dear boy.

But fascism has always been for the weak and fearful.

The ultimate weapon of the clueless is to accuse any one who is uncompromisng in the face of terror is to call them facist.
Tell me, how will your appeasement approach work?
Don't bother, I already know the answer, it won't.

Yet I'm sure you'll return to normal.

I always am, I have no idea why you equate dealing with murderers as facism, but that's a matter that is between you and your analist.

Until then, you're really cute throwing that tantrum.

You actually caught me off guard, till I realized what you were driving at (The Friesler thing made the conection for me).

You changed your tactics, and so will I.

I still think your a jack-ass, BTW.

**faded glory** · January 23, 2002, 14:14

This thread is awesome. I can smell the burnt flesh from the flaming

Well its official now for all of you still talking about it. Detainee's wont get geneva convention POW status.

But there being treated well

**MichaeltheGreat** · January 23, 2002, 14:17

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

At last - the truth.

After a string of 15-16 hour workdays, I think I've earned the right to a garbled sentence.

**MichaeltheGreat** · January 23, 2002, 14:23

Originally posted by Roland
Returning to the point of why those guys are held at Guantanamo:

A NATION CHALLENGED: CAPTIVES; RUMSFELD DEFENDS TREATMENT BY U.S. OF CUBA DETAINEES (Published 2002)

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/23/international/americas/23DETA.html

Defense Sec Donald H Rumsfeld, frustrated by international outcry over treatment of Al Qaeda prisoners held by US at Naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, defends US conduct in lengthy Pentagon briefing; dismisses criticism as breathless armchair hyperbole; says all prisoners have been treated humanely; blames media; says release of photograph showing prisoners in restraints in holding area at naval base was unfortunate since it offered no explanation; says Pentagon's clear priority with prisoners is to extract information to prevent future attacks, calling them 'committed terrorists;' criticism swells from abroad; critics accuse US of using sensory deprivation and other psychological control, techniques to weaken prisoners so interrogations will be more fruitful; allegations by International Committee of the Red Cross and Amnesty International noted; several governments join chorus; say prisoners should be granted prisoner-of-war status under Geneva Convention; only Britain and Spain support US; photo (M)

And:

Also, I can't see much importance in getting military information about Afghanistan. Not to mention that it should be a priority for the new government there which does not seem to be particularly interested in that group flown to Guantanamo....

My understanding is that we're sharing relevant intel with the Afghani government, such as it is in present form, and that they got first crack at these prisoners, and by process of joint interrogation, it was determined that these people have useful info.

I don't think we're constraining what we get out of them.

Point taken on the weapons and tribal warfare, but that doesn't concern me much either - most of those tribally held weapons are just for their use in local brigandage and territorial protection, not for some ambitious type in Herat or Gardeyz to decide to take over the country.

The real security concern is the rather huge stocks of weapons piled up by the Taleban and al Qaeda for their purposes, which will be accessible once the borders return to their traditional state of total porosity. I expect a lot of people are biding their time for when the US focuses on the next target and Afghanistan drops nearly off the US radar screen - that won't be very far from now, either.

**Viper2263** · January 23, 2002, 14:55

Originally posted by David Floyd

It's not moral relativism. I actually believe in absolute morals. It's saying, for example, "The Holocaust was morally wrong, yet it would also be wrong for us to punish you for it, because it did not violate your laws and we have no moral authority to impose our beliefs and laws upon you."

What is the definition of morally wrong? It was explained to me that evil is not what we believe it to be, but what God says it to be, if you believe in such a higher power. TWC incident was evil because it was murder plain and simple. It violates the Ten Commanments, which btw are not just a religious doctrine as much as they are a way of life and a belief that our nation was founded upon, our whole legal system and the volumes of laws can be summed up using the Ten Commandments. 9-11 is evil not because we say so, but because God says so. There's no debating that. What we the United States of America are doing is also in the Torah and Bible as self-defense. We as a nation are mearly ensuring our survival. We're entitled to that. And it is not wrong, and I would like every pot smoking, anti-war, ****ing hippy to truely understand this! If you think they are human why don't you go sit down in one of their cages, talk peace with them and watch the hate in their eyes burn through you as they thirst for your blood!

**Immortal Wombat** · January 23, 2002, 15:01

Originally posted by Viper2263
What is the definition of morally wrong? It was explained to me that evil is not what we believe it to be, but what God says it to be, if you believe in such a higher power. TWC incident was evil because it was murder plain and simple. It violates the Ten Commanments, which btw are not just a religious doctrine as much as they are a way of life and a belief that our nation was founded upon, our whole legal system and the volumes of laws can be summed up using the Ten Commandments. 9-11 is evil not because we say so, but because God says so.

Evidently their God didn't think so. It was carried out in His name.

If you think they are human why don't you go sit down in one of their cages, talk peace with them and watch the hate in their eyes burn through you as they thirst for your blood!

No-one said they were nice humans

Is basic biology taught in America? You cannot change species via your actions...

**Viper2263** · January 23, 2002, 15:09

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Evidently their God didn't think so. It was carried out in His name.

No-one said they were nice humans

Is basic biology taught in America? You cannot change species via your actions...

I'm only justifying our actions and since the Koran also has the Ten Commandments it is also wrong by them. As fanatics have a tendancy to do they leave out those aspects of faith they do not like.

Animal's act on instinct not reason. Therefore these men are animals. They instinctfully hate that which stives to be better. They are ultimately jealous, but are do damned lazy to stop farming opium and make a productive society.

**reds4ever** · January 23, 2002, 18:59

Originally posted by Chris 62
Hardly my imagination, a loser fell for that ol trick sure as shotin'

.....or did YOU fall into MY double windup trick, LOSER?

(think about about it, you'll suss it eventually)

**reds4ever** · January 23, 2002, 23:44

...or will you?

Announcement

I wonder how Americans would feel if their soldiers were kept like the Al Qaeda POW's

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment