Historical or political correctness?

[DinoDoc]

Rereading the thread ...

Is it just me or has Berzerker raised the most valid points this thread?

[KrazyHorse]

Just you. Standard Berzerker fare from what I've seen. Not stupid, just over-the-top individualistic.

[DinoDoc]

Oh well. Since, Berz isn't here right now.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why not just make it a collection of spheres and cubes that feels like unity?

As long as the person paying for it (apparently not the Fire Department in this case) wants a collection of spheres and cubes, why not?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

just over-the-top individualistic.

???

Don't these three men represent everyone even though they are white?

[KrazyHorse]

The guvmint didn't force him to make it different, so what's it to you? If members of the public want to exert influence by speech then what's the problem?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave

just over-the-top individualistic.

???

Don't these three men represent everyone even though they are white?

You missed what I was referring to. Berzerker doesn't care what the statue's about as long as he doesn't have to pay for it and freedom of speech isn't intruded upon, but that really isn't germane to the discussion at hand, since nobody forced anybody else to do anything here.

[chequita guevara]

For whom is this statue a memorial? Only the three men raising the flag in the photo? Well, then by all means, they should have their faces on the statues, since it is a memorial for those three gentlemen.

Oh, wait, it's not, its for all the firemen and for all Americans. Oh well, sucks to be them. We don't need no unity, this is America. White supremacy for all!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The guvmint didn't force him to make it different, so what's it to you? If members of the public want to exert influence by speech then what's the problem?

The answer to both questions is that it was changed over his objections even though he paid for it.

[chequita guevara]

If you are giving me a statue, I have the right to say I want it to look a particular way. If you don't like it, you don't have to give it to me. If you are dead set on giving me the statue, however, than do it the way I ask.

[RUFFHAUS 8]

This whole thing is insane.

It's stupid that somone saw a photograph of the firefighters and thought, "wow that would make a great statue if two of those firefighters were not white...."

It's equally stupid that someone is complaining that the statue will have firefighters who are not white. Who cares? Yes, it's blatent pandering to be PC. But by complaining about it, these people are guilty of the same nitwittery that they revile.

It's stupid that anyone cares what color the firefighters are. The only person who might have a beef here is the photographer, who might want to take issue with the statue's accuarcy to the original photograph.

We're never going to get along until we can stop seeing each other as skin colors as opposed to just people.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Oh, wait, it's not, its for all the firemen and for all Americans.

You still haven't answered the question I asked, che. You also seem to be resorting to increasing use of histrionics in order to avoid doing so. It's bad form and really doesn't help your case.

[RUFFHAUS 8]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Don't these three men represent everyone even though they are white?

Thank You!!!

[KrazyHorse]

What che said with regard to ownership of the statue.

If the guy paid for a statue which he wanted to depict the photograph as accurately as possible and the FD didn't want to erect it as is, then he didn't have to change it; he could have it made how he wants and erect it in his backyard.

Some of you seem to be convinced that somehow this guy's money was stolen to make a statue he didn't want; he didn't have to agree to the changes, but he decided to let them go through in order to get the statue raised in the FD's lobby.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
With the exception of American Indians (and possibly Latinos), there were no non-white American combatants in the Pacific theater. Asians and Black folks fought in Europe.

Incorrect. Nisei Japanese-Americans fought in Europe.

It's interesting to see the hate boiling up herre over the inclusion of different groups in a statue that is based on a photograph. Of course, there is no racial animus here. You just want historical accuracy.

So should the statues of the Roman emporers have been "representative" of the racial groups within the empire, rather than the emporers themselves?

The statue is "based on" the real live action of three individuals - if NY wants to do a nice PC generic statue, then do one of three generic people from Cantor-Fitzgerald or something. The statue proposal isn't just "based on" that photo, it's a total ripoff of it, within the limits of bronze sculpture, except for the racial alteration of their faces.

The similar Vietnam vets memorial was a stylized creation - it didn't take a photo of three individuals then change their facial features.

BTW, CB2034, I woiuld expect to be banned if I were you. What you wrote was not only racist, it was a lie. C'ya.

Nope, no ban. If I banned everyone for ignorant or biased comments, or for convenient ideological misrepresentations, I'd be banning 90% of the forum. Racist comments, homophobic comments, anti-religion comments, etc., have to rise to a pretty extreme level, like advocating killing, deporting, whatever.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't think CB should be banned for it either; I just don't want to have to read what he has to say any more.