Historical or political correctness?

[Jaguar]

what about a firefighter in a wheelchair?

[Dr Strangelove]

I thought that one of the men depicted by the Iwo Jima Memorial was supposed to be a native American.

Why not put together a photomural of all the FF and police who died at the WTC. With digital editing they could be made to be seen as standing together for a group photograph.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


The Iwo Jima memorial in Washington, D.C. features only white men. Is that somehow insulting to the rest of the men who died in that battle even though represents all of the Americans lost?

If the makers of the statue want to be politically correct, they shouldn't base their statue on a real photograph. Changing the photo, a small part of history, is unethical and just plain wrong.

Actually, one of the men is a native Indian - Ira Hayes.

[DinoDoc]

Edit: The point is that they didn't change the race of the men in the photograph to give a more representative sampling of the ethnicities of the men that died at the battle or even those that died in the Pacific War.

[Berzerker]

Tingkai -

I'm getting tired of the "PC" attitude that attacks any effort to honour those who are not white.

The statue is a work of art and that means the artist is allowed to exercise artistic licence. A sculpture is not supposed to be a perfect representation of life. What's next? People complaining that Picasso's paintings are not realistic?

Then let the artist and the person paying for it decide. They did, they chose to portray the event as it happened - with 3 white guys. That's why some in the PC crowd is up in arms.

I have no problem with a statue portraying ethnic diversity, I just don't care if the guys are white, black, brown, or green...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Tingkai -

Then let the artist and the person paying for it decide. They did, they chose to portray the event as it happened - with 3 white guys. That's why some in the PC crowd is up in arms.

I have no problem with a statue portraying ethnic diversity, I just don't care if the guys are white, black, brown, or green...

You have things backwards.
From CNN: "The decision to represent different races was made by the Fire Department, the makers of the statue, and the property-management company that owns the department headquarters building and commissioned the work."

"Given that those who died were of all races and all ethnicities and that the statue was to be symbolic of those sacrifices, ultimately a decision was made to honor no one in particular, but everyone who made the supreme sacrifice," Fire Department spokesman Frank Gribbon said.

The "really PC" crowd is up in arms because the statue portrays people of different colour. What they want is the all-white version.

But we are talking about Americans so this isn't the end. The three firefighters in the photograph have hired a lawyer to demand that their faces be used for the sculpture. Talk about grandstanding.

[faded glory]

This is disgusting utterly repulsive. that they would alter the statue for political correctness! Ya,ya, we know 5.5% of the FD was not white.....we know a handful died... and rightfully they will be honored. but if the picture was.....what it was. then thats what it was. the firefighters who raised that flag on the smoldering rubble dont deserve this crap.


But honest to god...this is nothing short of vandalism. The picture, was fine the way it was.



now its just a big lie.



it does not seem to matter cause the copyrights to the photo arent owned by the FD. So.....nice clay mock-up, but we want the real thing! Next!!

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by faded glory
Ya,ya, we know 5.5% of the FD was not white.....we know a handful died... and rightfully they will be honored.

But not in the statue honouring those who died? That makes no sense.

[The Mad Monk]

Okay, everyone knows that the statue is based on the photo--right down to the folds in the flag and the looks on the mens' faces. Everyone knows who those men are. Now, imagine years from now, when these men take their grandchildren to see the statue:

"There it is"

"That statue is of you, Grandpa?"

"Yep, the three of us"

(long pause)

"Grandpa, are you the black one, or the hispanic one?"

[Alexander's Horse]

If they put a Pole, a Jew and an Irishman on there people could make up jokes easier.

[Dis]

this is bullsh!t

yet people try to justify this bullsh!t.

Yes I know about "artistic liscence"

But as far as I know everything else is supposed to be the same. Except the races. What about the child of the firefighter who is in the picture. how can he go up to the statue and say that is my dad. His friends will laugh at him and kick his a$$.

And I heard (don't know if it is true) that the artist was influenced by certain people to make the statue have different races.

And what about the gay firefighters? this is an insult to them. I want to see a gay firefighter statue dammit!!!

[Urban Ranger]

Is it some kind of coincidence that the Apolytoners who are upset over this are white?

So the statue is based on a photograph doesn't mean the statue is the photograph. Not that it is physically possible.

[Berzerker]

Tingkai -

You have things backwards. From CNN: "The decision to represent different races was made by the Fire Department, the makers of the statue, and the property-management company that owns the department headquarters building and commissioned the work."

Not true, the man - Ratner - who was paying for it didn't want it changed. These other groups only asked for the change after pressure from others.

The "really PC" crowd is up in arms because the statue portrays people of different colour. What they want is the all-white version.

Not true, if 3 black men, or ethnically diverse men, had been photographed raising the flag, then they should have been depicted raising the flag. Their skin color is irrelevant...

But we are talking about Americans so this isn't the end. The three firefighters in the photograph have hired a lawyer to demand that their faces be used for the sculpture. Talk about grandstanding.

They were the ones raising the flag, should they/we ignore the fact the statue won't reflect what they did?

[Dis]

so are you calling me a racist?

because I am white, I can't have a problem with the artwork?

I suppose if I was black, it would be OK for me to critisize the artist changing of the historical account.

It is people like you that are the problem.

and I am native american as well, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you because my skin is white.

[Berzerker]

UR -

Is it some kind of coincidence that the Apolytoners who are upset over this are white?

Given the fact virtually all apolytoners are "white", this "coincidence" is problematic. I find it interesting that the PC leftists seem to care more about skin color than the truth though.

So the statue is based on a photograph doesn't mean the statue is the photograph.

Yeah, the fact the statue just happens to look like the photograph is just another coincidence