The Best Science Fiction Series of All-Time

[Asher]

Yes, I can read.
Can you write?

Here's what you said:

If you want gay characters, go watch a musical.

Inserting gays, lesbians, people with drinking problems, or people with problems getting dates is exactly the sort of soap opera mentality that ruins fiction.

You specifically said inserting any character that is gay turns it into a soap opera and ruins that fiction.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by red_jon
When a sci-fi programme has a gay character in it, I'll vote.

Why is that relevant? Does the fact that a show has straight characters turn you away from it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why is that relevant? Does the fact that a show has straight characters turn you away from it?

Part of scifi, for many people, is the escapism is provides. Being able to relate to characters is somewhat critical in that.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Asher
Part of scifi, for many people, is the escapism is provides.

And the fact that a fictional character happens to be straight detracts from that part of the show in what way? Just to give an example, I happen to like Buffy, The Vampire Slayer & Spin City just fine.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
And the fact that a fictional character happens to be straight detracts from that part of the show in what way? Just to give an example, I happen to like Buffy, The Vampire Slayer & Spin City just fine.

Well, many gay people have troubles relating to straight people.
So if you're gay, having a show full of straight people is decidedly harder to find people to relate to in it.

[red_jon]

Lol, I have nothing against straight people! Having straight people doesn't detract from it, I just noticed that sci-fi is a genre where gay people don't seem to exist too much.

[Asher]

What are you talking about, red_jon?
Straight people are evil heretics, against God's way. They're disgusting, mixing sexes like that. It's not pure, I tell you!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by red_jon
I just noticed that sci-fi is a genre where gay people don't seem to exist too much.

Gay characters don't "exist too much" in any genre. Why single only one out for condemnation?

Asher:

[Khan Singh]

The key word is "insert".

In Babylon 5, for instance, JMS (the creator) "inserted" a pat character flaw into each of his main characters. Every so often, he would write a lame story about Garibaldi's drinking, the Doctor's stim addiction, or Ivanova's ambivalence about her father. It had nothing to do the overall story, the Shadows or the creeping corruption of the Earth's government. It was just a little bit of soap opera thrown in to take up time.

Does that mean that such issues can't be dealt with in SF? Of course not. There is a good ST:TNG episode which had Ryker fall in love with a semi-androgynous alien. This episode was clearly about gay intolerance, and was very well done. That's science fiction. Making the captain of your space ship gay is not. That's just pandering.

Your readiness to criticize intolerance seems a little one-sided. Red john said that he wouldn't even vote for a good science fiction series unless it had a gay character in it. His clear implication is that if a show doesn't have an openly gay character in it, then it cannot possibly be good. He even goes so far as to exclude lesbians from the list of people who he can tolerate watching. How come you don't criticize him? He gets a free pass because he happens to like gays?

[lightblue]

I reckon a lot of the Klingons might be gay. The military forces have sort of a history of supressed homoerotic feelings, and I reckon that if you have a whole warrior culture...

[red_jon]

LOL @ Asher and Lightblue.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Khan Singh
Your readiness to criticize intolerance seems a little one-sided. Red john said that he wouldn't even vote for a good science fiction series unless it had a gay character in it. His clear implication is that if a show doesn't have an openly gay character in it, then it cannot possibly be good. He even goes so far as to exclude lesbians from the list of people who he can tolerate watching. How come you don't criticize him? He gets a free pass because he happens to like gays?

red_jon's comment was there's not enough gay people in modern sci-fi, which is true for shows in general these days.

The problem here, Khan, is you equate homosexuality to a character flaw. You think it's distracting to have a gay character, and go on to compare this to a drinking problem. That's why I am so ready to criticize.

Most sci-fi shows have heterosexual relationships form in some way or another, but suddenly if it's homosexual it's a distraction and a character flaw.

[Zopperoni]

Stargate, it's the only sci-fi show I like, the others bore me.

[Paul Hanson]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I like Stargate personally.

Same here. Much better than poncey old Star Trek.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Paul Hanson
Same here. Much better than poncey old Star Trek.

Bah!

I do like the show. I just don't agree with you on that point.