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US plans to ban cloning, Europe taking up this oportunity to get ahead in research

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  • #31
    "I read a book about Genetically engineered super-humans that were 6 foot tall.....built for war and had excellent marksmanship...profiles.....endurance.all genetic traits. They cloned 800 million of these soldiers and nothing in the world could stop them. All armys became obsolete over-night as these super-men waged war against the nations of the earth and the humans were unable to reproduce at such rates...and eventually lost.'

    -And who can feed that many people and train them? You do realize that clones start out as normal babies, and there's very little we could do to make them mature faster. Any third world dictator who tries it will just starve his nation.
    "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
    -Joan Robinson

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    • #32
      You guys flame on some other thread please

      Now I wonder if anybody shares my concerns that I mentioned above about all this?

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      • #33
        Tho while I believe this research needs to go forward for medical reasons.
        As do I.

        I do fear some issues and I wonder if you too are worried mark...
        Not really. For reasons described below.

        I read a book about Genetically engineered super-humans that were 6 foot tall.....built for war and had excellent marksmanship...profiles.....endurance.all genetic traits. They cloned 800 million of these soldiers and nothing in the world could stop them. All armys became obsolete over-night as these super-men waged war against the nations of the earth and the humans were unable to reproduce at such rates...and eventually lost.
        Don't believe all you read. We are talking about cloning embryos here, not making a human being from scratch. We can copy, we can't design.

        I am also concerned about "Designer Babies". I dont want walking Clones amongst us. We shouldnt grow life like this...no love..no soul.....no chemistry.....Just made to look exactly like someone else that created them.
        This is a common misconception. It really doesn't make any sense, since cloned people will be identical to "natural" people. They all feel emotions including love, they all have "souls" (whatever that might be). This is not a valid argument against cloning.
        Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Giancarlo
          Is it legal for me to hold an opinion around here?
          You have barely even stated an opinion in this discussion, pretty much all you are doing is telling people that their opinion is wrong, and not backing it up with anything.
          Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

          Do It Ourselves

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          • #35
            "Is it legal for me to hold an opinion around here?"

            -Absolutely. You can hold that there is no God. I don't think too many people around here will jump on you for that one.
            "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
            -Joan Robinson

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            • #36
              er....Markl....There's a problem with your OP....


              As long as Europeans dislike gentically engineered products, Europe will remain behind America.

              Sorry.
              Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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              • #37
                Okay Osweld, I will state my opinion. I am against Cloning in any way because I don't like the idea of it. It is disturbing. There. Thank you and have a nice day.
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Victor Galis
                  "I read a book about Genetically engineered super-humans that were 6 foot tall.....built for war and had excellent marksmanship...profiles.....endurance.all genetic traits. They cloned 800 million of these soldiers and nothing in the world could stop them. All armys became obsolete over-night as these super-men waged war against the nations of the earth and the humans were unable to reproduce at such rates...and eventually lost.'

                  -And who can feed that many people and train them? You do realize that clones start out as normal babies, and there's very little we could do to make them mature faster. Any third world dictator who tries it will just starve his nation.
                  Good point......but what if it isnt a 3rd world nation? ya the book was silly...It all started when the Moon Colonists revolted and shot giant rocks at earth....the revolt was crushed and they rebels waged a secret war on earth by setting up a base and creating so many clones that were through the knowledge of the Human Genome...programmed to rise up at a certain date.

                  God I love Sci-Fi


                  Its still no doubt a concern that sombody is bound to exploit this!

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                  • #39
                    Stop being so patently ridiculous. So you, some teenage schoolboy who knows approaching zero on the issue is trying to lecture me, an Oxford biochemistry graduate, for example, that I am wrong because I don't share your political affiliation. Well I tell you what child, let's go head to head on the issue of biotechnology in painstaking detail, and discuss the real facts here. Your arse will be spread right across these forums in no time. So don't come the condescending crap with me, because it doesn't wash.
                    Well said! Giani here with no education presumes to know more than one of my friends who got his MA in Biotechnology and is working on his PhD. Funny.
                    Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                    • #40
                      Its still no doubt a concern that sombody is bound to exploit this!
                      Somebody is bound to exploit everything. That doesn't mean apocalypse is near.

                      I am against Cloning in any way because I don't like the idea of it. It is disturbing.
                      Why? Arguments please. And don't tell me "cause Bush said so''.

                      As long as Europeans dislike gentically engineered products, Europe will remain behind America.
                      We are talking about medical purposes here, not consumer goods. Also, if the former proves succesfull, the latter will come eventually.
                      Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mark L


                        Well said! Giani here with no education presumes to know more than one of my friends who got his MA in Biotechnology and is working on his PhD. Funny.
                        Go take your ****ing judgement out here... you are not a judge to indict what someone's education are. You also have no right to say my opinion is wrong without considering it.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #42


                          Where's the AP link?

                          Just a couple of points

                          It's very clear that people will be able to genetically engineer their children in the coming future. You don't think they won't give them excellent eye sight, better stamina, etc in a heart beat. Just from people wanting their children to succeed, the military will have an excellent pool of foot soldiers to choose from. Some sinister government won't have to do it, they can let the public do it.

                          But why does everyone think they'll be mindless automotons, people aren't just their genes they are the sum of their experiences and unless we could somehow erase memories and implant others theres no reason to assume someone with the same genes as say Saddam will be and think just like Saddam.

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                          • #43
                            The problems with GM crops is because of how greedy multinationals (*ahem* Monsanto *ahem*) manipulate technology to their own ends, and quite frankly, their implementation of crop modification has not been in line with the needs of humanity. High level pest resistance against all ecological advice? Terminator gene? These are the proper arguments against it. Not against the technology, but the way it is abused. You should try kicking up a stink about this kind of technology, not the cloning/stem cell research stuff, which is very much in the field of medicine. And as for cloning big armies, that would require a massively more sophisticated knowledge of the interaction of the genome. Something not even really in the scope of this technique. But remember, every powerful technology can be abused, that is the lesson of the argument. Fission gives the nuclear bomb yet gives nuclear power. Nothing is black and white. But as anything, if you can control the application of the technology (something that is allowed to run unchecked so often, and seemingly more so in the US as is the case with genetically modified lines), then you can reap the benefits of the technology, which medically speaking, are vast. Not only are the applications that can be envisaged dramatic, but what avenues may be opened as well...
                            Speaking of Erith:

                            "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                            • #44
                              Yup, just like its legal to point out when certain bald assertions are remarkably idiotic.
                              Stop Quoting Ben

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang
                                Yup, just like its legal to point out when certain bald assertions are remarkably idiotic.
                                Likewise. It isn't like you support anything you say with anything unbiased. Bald assertions? Were did that come from? I was speaking from my mind... leave Bush and all the scientists out of this.
                                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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