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US plans to ban cloning, Europe taking up this oportunity to get ahead in research

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  • #76
    Sad to see that Holland's parliament is mostly communist.

    You don't even know if the law for banning continued research in this area would occur in the US. So just hold your horses.
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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    • #77
      Sad to see that Holland's parliament is mostly communist.
      Damn you're stupid.

      right wing: 46 seats
      centre: 43

      That's already 89 out of 150 who aren't left wing, let alone communist. Do you have a problem with math or something?
      Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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      • #78
        Giancarlo, if the only line of argument you have is to call anyone who argues against you a 'commie' then you really ought to f**k off out of here in my opinion. I disagree with you and you call me a commie. I know a lot more about this stuff than you do. Debate properly or don't bother.

        The ethics being placed here are totally misplaced ethics. We are talking about research using stem cells, they are the holy grail of this research, and then adding the correct hormones to get them to develop into the tissue we want. Transplants without rejection anyone? People who can get new hearts without being on a concoction of immunosuppressant drugs for the rest of their life and a high chance of rejection. We are not growing 'Hitler brains' here () or engaging in eugenics. Really, I have never seen anything so stupid. I am getting quite tired by some of the debaters here because you repeat, parrot-fashion, the dubya line on the issue. To me, it looks like the right is the cult around here. Why do you agree so blindly Giancarlo? Because dubya cannot be wrong? Is he your God? It's pathetic.
        Speaking of Erith:

        "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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        • #79
          Well said Provost!
          Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Mark L


            Damn you're stupid.

            right wing: 46 seats
            centre: 43

            That's already 89 out of 150 who aren't left wing, let alone communist. Do you have a problem with math or something?
            Just treating you like you treat me. Like you deserve.

            Giancarlo, if the only line of argument you have is to call anyone who argues against you a 'commie' then you really ought to f**k off out of here in my opinion. I disagree with you and you call me a commie. I know a lot more about this stuff than you do. Debate properly or don't bother.
            Again I treat you the same way you treat me... like ****ing ****.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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            • #81
              You're funny giani! In a stupid way

              Anyway, back on topic (ignoring giani).

              The Congress is likely to pass the law, and as has been said, after sept 11th the senate usually tends to vote in Bush' favor as well. Since in some European countries, like Holland and Britain, cloning for medical purposes will be made legal, it's likely that biotech firms will invest more money in Europe and move part of their research there.

              And of course someone someday will abuse it. But laws passed in one country or another won't stop that. It's a global economy now, it doesn't matter if the US is going to ban it, since research will simply continue elsewhere. Only a world-wide ban might stop it, but that's impossible to achieve. In the meantime the US will miss the boat.
              Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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              • #82
                Rufus:

                "That's what I was saying."

                Sorry, couldn't resist:

                "Why don't fetuses have rights?... the Supreme Court has held that fetuses don't have rights...definition of personhood in the Constitution is..."

                All fetuses ? Everywhere? Which supreme court ? Which constitution ?
                You might have been talking about Turkey...

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Provost Harrison
                  To me, it looks like the right is the cult around here.
                  Hey, we are not all the same.

                  I consider myself to be on the right side of the political spectrum and I am fully in support of both cloning and genetically modified crops. Perhaps a different correlation would be more appropriate - people who are religious seem to be against human cloning, while atheists (like me) support it.
                  Rome rules

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                  • #84
                    But if you clone his brain... well, we haven't reached that yet. And he isn't buried anywhere, or is he?


                    When you clone a human being, you clone their brain, too, Giancarlo.

                    And when if you cloned Hitler, you don't clone the 1930s German political situation along with him.
                    the good reverend

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                    • #85
                      And when if you cloned Hitler, you don't clone the 1930s German political situation along with him.
                      Exactly. I sincerely hope that giani will stay out of this thread now with more moronic replies.
                      Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                      • #86
                        I would agree that banning cloning research is a bad thing. I've never heard an ethical objection to it that made much sense, and it could be useful.

                        If humanity can be improved through genetic engineering, that's all the better. I think when such a thing is possible it would be grossly immoral to allow unimproved humans to be born - who are we to burden future generations with all kinds of defects just because it's "natural"? Who are we not to play God?


                        If an unimportant, fairly harmless thing such as cloning already causes such a scared reaction, I wonder how people will react to the technologies that could really change life in many ways, if they can be reached - nanotechnology, high levels of artificial intelligence and the like.

                        And to the left-wingers here who oppose genetic engineering when done by corporations: I hope this will not cause you to reject the technology itself - it would make much more sense to support the technology while arguing for a somewhat better implementation.

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                        • #87
                          Well it isn't technology I distrust, it is those who apply it without evaluating the full implications of it or understanding it fully.
                          Speaking of Erith:

                          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                          • #88
                            I have no objection to that Provost (though I don't necessarily agree that's what's happening here), but I hope it won't make you against the technology itself as seems to have happened often to people in the left wing. The way I see it the misuses of the technology people are protesting about are (even if correct) trivial issues compared to ensuring that the technology itself is used fully (or almost fully, whatever).
                            So, I'm not saying you're wrong (or right) about this misuse, but that your concentration (and that of people who have similar opinions) should be elsewhere.

                            BTW - I don't think anyone can ever understand every implication of a technology.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Mark L


                              Exactly. I sincerely hope that giani will stay out of this thread now with more moronic replies.
                              It isn't like you are any better than I am, your replies are extremely moronic and completely uninformed. I shifted my opinion somewhat as you would notice because I was originally uninformed, I actually got no problem with stem cell research but cloning an actual human being should be downright illegal.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #90
                                America loves money more than she loves religion. I hope for her sake that Europe realises that, and takes full advantage of her temporary opportunity.
                                Obsessed with reality... and what she can DO for me.

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