US plans to ban cloning, Europe taking up this oportunity to get ahead in research

[Saint Marcus]

Bush and other American politicians made it clear that cloning in whatever form is going to be banned.

Meanwhile, in Europe various countries are deciding to legalise cloning, thus creating a haven for bio-tech engineers, researchers and scientists worldwide. Holland is ahead as usual, the governement is going to allow cloning (with possible subsidies even) next month. I believe other European countries have been working in the same direction.

The results of this are obvious. Biotech companies worldwide will focus their efforts in Europe and will leave the US en mass, at least the parts of their companies that are involved with cloning. This means that new medical breakthroughs will come from Europe, and Europe will catch up and overtake the US in a matter of years in that field.

Since I'm personally, and most dutchmen with me, 100% for cloning for medical purposes, and since I personally would love to see Europe surpassing the US in this research field (or any research field), I think this is a great development!


And I want to give my thanks to President Shrubya for making a stupid choice for his country, and for making a great choice for Europe. Who knows, maybe in a year or so we'll here Bush say that America's future lies in Europe

NOTE: That last part was a troll of course, and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

[General Ludd]

What kind of cloning are you talking about?

[Saint Marcus]

Embrionic cloning, like that American company just announced two days ago.

[shade]

Originally posted by Osweld
What kind of cloning are you talking about?

What kinds do you know???

Since I'm personally, and most dutchmen with me, 100% for cloning for medical purposes

I hope that Belgium follows quickly.

and since I personally would love to see Europe surpassing the US in this research field (or any research field), I think this is a great development!

Second that one

Shade

[Provost Harrison]

Yes, our government is rushing the legislation through as soon as it can. It is strange to watch the religious right in the US slam the door on this vital area of research and giving the rest of the world a major head start. Very strange, in terms of biotech, it is unlike the US to look a gifthorse in the mouth. True ignorance at work here people...

[Giancarlo]

I don't see how you can mess with evolution. Anybody that tries should be shot. Simple.

As you notice I support this ban... cloning does nothing to help anybody besides mess with the evolutionary chain. It is disturbing.

You dumb North Europeans think this would solve everything... just wait until Saddam gets his hands on this. He will clone himself.

[faded glory]

Reilgous rant:

I think that creating an actual...souless...human is scary. Im thinking along the lines of frankstien (were mentioning the birth defects of cloning that are irreversable.....)


But along the lines of Stem Cells...Since clones 'arent' considered life I dont see whats the big deal. Were gonna need the stem cells. Better to take the coating out of Microscopic embryos and mulitply them then Discarded fetus from abortion which might potentially create some sort of Abortion-for-cash-market.

[rah]

Your desire/glee for Europe to be better at anything always amuses me. It shows a real insecurity on your part.

Yes, a little teasing.

Some food for thought.
You're making the assumption that making it illegal is going to stop it in the US. You are obviously not a student of US history. It will just be done more discretely. As long as money is involved, there are always many willing to cross the line. It's just that their accomplishments will appear in Journals that will say the research was done somewhere else. And many people will just wink.

I won't even discuss what would happen if the US military decides that it has potential.


RAH

[Saint Marcus]

So Britain is going ahead with legalisation as well. Very nice indeed! I also believe Italy and France is taking steps in that direction, but I'm not completely sure about that. But it's great news, it will incease Europe's prestigese in the field of research, it will help Europe's economy, it will weaken the US, and most importantly...it will deliver cures for some of the worst illnesses in the world. Cancer, diabetes, parkinson, etc. My thanks goes out to the researchers, for helping in getting rid of these illnesses once and for all. Though probably only in Europe, since it will illegal in the US and many other countries. This will create bizarre situations in which people from all over the world will go to Europe to get treated, because their own countries don't allow them to get treatement there. Very sad.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
I don't see how you can mess with evolution. Anybody that tries should be shot. Simple.

As you notice I support this ban... cloning does nothing to help anybody besides mess with the evolutionary chain. It is disturbing.

You dumb North Europeans think this would solve everything... just wait until Saddam gets his hands on this. He will clone himself.

Giancarlo, you don't have the vaguest notion what this technique is about. It is not about cloning people but being able to produce cell lines at will, eg, easily available skin grafts, transplant organs with no risk of rejection, nerve repair, things that to our present medical knowledge are a dream.

So keep going Giancarlo, you are proving beyond a shadow of a doubt there is no end to your ignorance. Stop towing the party line, because you don't have the vaguest notion what these techniques are about. Sounds like you are towing a very 'catholic' line on this issue. Strange for a self-professed atheist.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Mark L
So Britain is going ahead with legalisation as well. Very nice indeed! I also believe Italy and France is taking steps in that direction, but I'm not completely sure about that. But it's great news, it will incease Europe's prestigese in the field of research, it will help Europe's economy, it will weaken the US, and most importantly...it will deliver cures for some of the worst illnesses in the world. Cancer, diabetes, parkinson, etc. My thanks goes out to the researchers, for helping in getting rid of these illnesses once and for all. Though probably only in Europe, since it will illegal in the US and many other countries. This will create bizarre situations in which people from all over the world will go to Europe to get treated, because their own countries don't allow them to get treatement there. Very sad.

It won't weaken the US and you don't know if it will help at all. Afterall messing with the evolutionary chain will cause devastation.

Sounds like you are towing a very 'catholic' line on this issue. Strange for a self-professed atheist.

So all atheists belong to one group of opinions? Uh no. Catholic? Nope, god doesn't exist, I am using different elements to fight this.

[Saint Marcus]

Giancarlo: Stop your ignorance please. This is used for curing illnesses, not cloning Hitler. And even if one could clone Hitler it will mean nothing at all since he will turn out completely different. Please go take a psychology class. Please. And after that a biology class. You need it.

Your desire/glee for Europe to be better at anything always amuses me. It shows a real insecurity on your part.

Yes, a little teasing.

Fair indeed

You're making the assumption that making it illegal is going to stop it in the US. You are obviously not a student of US history. It will just be done more discretely. As long as money is involved, there are always many willing to cross the line. It's just that their accomplishments will appear in Journals that will say the research was done somewhere else. And many people will just wink.

Why on Earth would any company go through all that, if it can just get settled somewhere else legally. Doesn't make much sense to me. It's a global economy now, we aren't stuck in some 1930s-type ban.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
So all atheists belong to one group of opinions? Uh no. Catholic? Nope, god doesn't exist, I am using different elements to fight this.

Giancarlo, what you quoted was pseudoscientific drivel. Effect the evolutionary line. Excuse me? It is what we have done since the dawn of civilisation in crop breeding, and more refined recently in genetic modification of crops. So your argument falls flat on it's face.

Evolution doesn't come into this at all because the aim is not to produce a new line of humans but to produce stem cells with the genome of a human, from which skin, nerve tissue, liver or a new heart could potentially be grown in the right kind of environment. This is why the technique is so essential, not to generate an ubermensch or an army of beefy brainless clones.

[DinoDoc]

Finally a piece of legislation I actually agree with.

Good for Bush.

[Saint Marcus]

It won't weaken the US and you don't know if it will help at all.

On second thought, take a course in economics first. Let me spell it out for you. Biotech companies that clone will leave the USA. Companies leaving is not good for the economy. On top of that, the USA will fall behind in technology in this field. As simple as 1+1.

I am using different elements to fight this.

Yes. Ignorance and stupidity.