Draft Dodgers: Traitors?

[David Floyd]

This is a great nation. And we and our families are blessed to be in this special place. That men like Franklin, and Henry and Jefferson risked their lives to start for us...and that we still treasure today.

I agree completely.

And, connor, I'm certainly glad you are able to serve in the military - I applaud that. I am just unable to for the reasons I described above.

[connorkimbro]

I am just unable to for the reasons I described above.

And personally, i don't hold it against you. The military isn't for everyone.

Sorry for butting in everyone.

[TCO]

your al;ternative is less appealing

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Perhaps, but the alternative is much more appealing.

What does a man of character matter if he doesn't have the education to do what he really wants?

Imran...I can kick your butt...regardless of how many fancy pancy college degrees you get. That stuff doesn't mean ****. I've worked with the top 1%ers from Harvard Business School and I've worked with gritty old Navy cheifs who didn't finish high school.

There's a lot more to llife than getting good grades and getting into a good college...and getting good grades to get into a good grad school...and getting good grades to get into a top firm.

Once you hit the working world...what matters is what you can get done. And if you lack character, you won't be able to lead men.

[David Floyd]

The military isn't for everyone.

And that's the thing. I'd love to go to West Point, work up to probably a Major or Lt. Colonel, put in my time - it'd certainly help my political aspiration, I think, but more than that I'd probably learn some valuable lessons, but the thing is, I just CAN'T. It'd be too hard for me to accept orders I didn't agree with morally or politically.

[Wraith]

--"Are draft dodgers traitors?"

Not necessarily. There are certainly valid reasons for not allowing yourself to be forced to fight, but there are also reasons that would fit the qualification of traitor.

--"Don't want to serve in the military? Fine. Don't."

Which is fine, as long as it applies. Selctive Service is still active, yes? Despite the name, you certainly can't select not to register, so this is still an issue.
I can't see it happening any time soon, however. Drafts are hugely unpopular, and even this war on terrorism isn't enough to justify it to the public. Politicans aren't too likely to risk it right now, but that's not to say it couldn't happen at some point.

--"I just created the religion of Davidism."

Careful. With a name like that you'll have the BATF and FBI beating down your door.

--"Are all Libertarians against signing up (RIGHT NOW) for the armed forces?"

Not all, no. We can respect anyone willing to do so, however, and put their life on the line for the country. However, all Libertarians object to the draft, and there are some valid objections to current global politics that would prevent some from enlisting.

Wraith
"Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have."
-- Harry Emerson Fosdick

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
And Slowwhand, I forgot about religious convictions. Of course, there's a very easy way to exploit that. I just created the religion of Davidism. It's just like Christianity, except that it says that being drafted is wrong.

Wouldn't it be simpler to call yourself a Quaker then?

Re Draft Dodgers: By aby reasonable definition of the word they would not be traitors. It would only become an issue in my mind if they wish to have a position in which they would have some amount of military responsibility, say Commander in Chief.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

To the best of my knowledge, the only time I've ever agreed with Slow is on his excellent "Best Car Chase" thread, and I don't think I've ever agreed with GP.

Until now.

The poll, which I'm not even bothering to answer because it's a false question (see Slow's first post for details), should actually read thus:

I'm against the draft because...
a) I'm against taking human life (i.e., I'm a conscientious objector)
b) I'm against putting myself in harm's way for my country (i.e., I'm a coward)
c) I believe that a free society should protect me, secure my rights, but never make any demands on me in return (i.e., I'm a selfish brat)

Pay your money, gents, and take your choice. But don't pretend choices b & c are honorable.

[Ramo]

There is a distinction between refusing the serve in a just war and refusing to support the draft. It's rather surprising that some of you cannot see it.

I believe that a free society should protect me, secure my rights, but never make any demands on me in return (i.e., I'm a selfish brat)

A society in which the state can coerce you into killing whoever it wants, by definition, is not free!

[Juggernaut]

If all humans were draft dodgers, there wouldn't be any wars.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Certainly not "traitors", which is defined (in the USA and a large majority of nations) as waging war against your own country, not as refusing to fight or serve.

[SlowwHand]

It would be better if all were enlistees, but...

[*End Is Forever*]

I certainly wouldn't fight. I'm not a concientious objector, and I don't believe that concientious objection is any better reason for dodging the draft than anything else. It disgusts me that what under any other situation people call "freedom" is mentioned by those same people as "cowardice" when it comes to the draft.

I would dodge a draft.
I won't volunteer.

Suck it.

[Rogan Josh]

I wonder if GP and Slowwhand would support the draft or volunteer for service if they were Afghanis living under the Taliban?

[drake]

Apples and Oranges RJ

However if they were Afghanis who enjoyed their way of life and supported treating women like trash and shooting people in public for entertainment, than hell yeah they should be signing up to defend their ideals.

[KrazyHorse]

If I were drafted for what I considered sufficient cause then I would go readily and without objection. If, on the other hand, I were drafted for some sh*tty immoral war, then the State would have a better time trying to train a monkey to take my place.

The draft is used in extreme situations to cure a population of its apathy.