Gay man beaten to death in Vancouver park

[General Ludd]

I don't think alot of the people here understand what a hate crime is. Hate crimes are when the motive of the killer revolves around the victims race/sex/whatever.


This law - like all laws - can be misused and abused, which is what you seem to be equating it with. Situations where an "ordinary" crime is commited and just because the victim was a minority, it all of a sudden becomes a hate crime is an abuse of the law, and a fault in the legal system, not the law. (not in the principles of the law, anyways)


For example, a real hate crime would be along the lines of a gang of rednecks cruising around town, beating / killing every black person they saw.

[SlowwHand]

A REAL hate crime involves killing someone because they are different than the killers. Period.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Additionally Imran, what if it involved a person from Pakistan?
Would you sing a different tune then?
Uh huh. I believe you would. A double to you.
What a hypocritical viewpoint for you to dare and think, much less express.
You're better than that. Show it.

Thanks for putting words in my ****ing mouth! Mind reader now? Well, perhaps you better work on your skills.

Calling me a hypocrite by taking my words and THEN make up what I'd believe.

You are lower than scum.

And no, I wouldn't sing a different tune. There should be NO Hate Crimes! People have the freedom to hate, if they act upon it, then they should be prosecuted by the regular law, not some tack on law.

Any reason why I shouldn't put you on my ignore list, moron?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I recall Imran being quite worried after 9-11 because of people targeting arab or "middle eastern looking" people. He was afraid of HATE. BLIND HATE. And now he is going to put up this line? He is a hypocrite! And then some.

There is a difference between fearing HATE and adding a frivoulous and unconstitutional law because of it!

Another to add to my ignore list (you are my first two, btw. Be proud ).

[History049]

Hang Slowwhand! There are no hate crimes, a crime is a crime!

[Asher]

I think what we need is "repeatable crimes" laws, not "hate" crimes.

The reason that hate crimes carry a heavier sentence usually is because the offender is far more likely to offend again if it was a hate crime rather than a random act of violence.

Instead of calling it a "hate" crime, let's just give offences by offenders that are much more likely to repeat the crime a much, much stiffer sentence.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher
I think what we need is "repeatable crimes" laws, not "hate" crimes.

The reason that hate crimes carry a heavier sentence usually is because the offender is far more likely to offend again if it was a hate crime rather than a random act of violence.

Instead of calling it a "hate" crime, let's just give offences by offenders that are much more likely to repeat the crime a much, much stiffer sentence.

Jon Miller

[drake]

There is a difference between fearing HATE and adding a frivoulous and unconstitutional law because of it!

Imran you are a schmuck. Seriously. I don't care if you put me on your ignore list. You want a society in which hate isnt tolerated, but then at the same time youre against laws that could protect minorities from hate crimes.

I am advocate the use of stronger laws against hate crimes, that would protect people (like you) who fear blind hate.

A redneck hick would think twice about taking out his homophobic rage on a gay man if he knew stiffer penalties were attached to it. Will it eradicate hate? Hell no. Will it help discourage it in society? I sure think so.

[vlad]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
So your point is if someone is beat to death, there must have been a reason for it?
Oh puh-lease! This from a Vlad the Impaler dovotee?

(have you ever guessed Sloww that my name is Vlad, short for Vladimir or Vladislov?)

Well duh of course there is a reason, if you are saying its a hate crime then there is your reason. but I think too often people jump to a conclusion about why someone was killed.


"For example, a real hate crime would be along the lines of a gang of rednecks cruising around town, beating / killing every black person they saw."
So its a hate crime then every time a black man kills a white man too because Sloww defines a hate crime as" A REAL hate crime involves killing someone because they are different than the killers. Period." I guess this would also work for everytime a man killed a woman, drug dealer killed a cop, cop killed a drug dealer, etc etc Seems to me that every murder involves some hate.

Back to the topic at hand, I just got off the phone with my gf and she said its not really that big of deal there and NO ONE is sure of why the crime was committed. As a future resident of BC I will also withold my judgement until the proper investigation has been completed by the proper BC authorities.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by vlad
So its a hate crime then every time a black man kills a white man too because Sloww defines a hate crime as" A REAL hate crime involves killing someone because they are different than the killers. Period." I guess this would also work for everytime a man killed a woman, drug dealer killed a cop, cop killed a drug dealer, etc etc Seems to me that every murder involves some hate.

It's a hate crime when their motive to kill the person is solely because said person is of a particular race or sex. If a black man killed someone for being white, that is most deffinately a hate crime. If someone is the victim in a crime which has motive other then bigotry, and just happened to be of another race then the criminal, that is not a hate crime.

[drake]

Well duh of course there is a reason, if you are saying its a hate crime then there is your reason. but I think too often people jump to a conclusion about why someone was killed.

Thats the first thing I said and I got yelled at

I'm definetly with you vlad. I'm against hate crime....TRUE hate crime.....not some fabricated idea that every crime is hate based in the definition of the word we're using.

But just as there are cases that may appear as hate crimes (as this one might) and are in fact just "conventional" crimes, there ARE true hate crimes. ANd these crimes should be treated differently........

[vlad]

So let me get this straight, if I kill Imran or hell I just beat him up real good because of his political views I get a certain fine or sentence, but if I beat him senseless because he is a muslim then I get a harsher sentence??

[Asher]

Originally posted by vlad
So let me get this straight, if I kill Imran or hell I just beat him up real good because of his political views I get a certain fine or sentence, but if I beat him senseless because he is a muslim then I get a harsher sentence??

If you have a predisposition for beating people because they are muslim, hell yes you should get a harsher sentence.

[vlad]

So what your really saying is if I have a predisposition to beating people because of their political views I should get a lighter sentence. I guess next time I beat Imran around I will say its for the political views, muslim muslim, hell I thought he was jewish

[Imran Siddiqui]

Asher, what if he has a predisposition to beating up Libertarians?

Say che got beaten up by Rabid Republicans, shouting "DIE COMMIE". Hate Crimes do NOTHING for that (and I don't think they should), isn't that a bit... well, discriminatory?