Should homosexuals/bisexuals be allowed in the military?

[connorkimbro]

I used to (a loooong time ago) think differently on this subject. Since leaving religion, and ESPECIALLY since actually joining the military myself, i've come to think quite differently. I have a feeling I know what the general consensus here will be, but I'd like a poll anyway. . . so here it is.

[faded glory]

no absolutely not.


It has nothing to do with religon. Is has everything to do with conduct......

If your gay, you can be in the armed services. Its called "Dont ask Dont tell"....Its works extremely well.

[connorkimbro]

Like i said, i'm in the service myself. Personally, at this time, i know VERY FEW people that care. Several of my friends are gay. None of them are openly gay exactly, but a few of them don't try to hide it too well. And nobody cares. Most people know who's gay, and who's not, and nobody cares. They have talked with the drill sergeants about it (in my old company, where we still had drill sergeants) they have talked with my current XO about it, etc. NOBODY cares. It doesn't affect anyones morale, it doesn't affect the mission, it doesn't affect ANYTHING.

The only thing the don't ask don't tell policy affects is the morale of the people that ARE gay. they are constantly paranoid, constantly worried, that somebody high up who's anal about the rules WILL find out. the whole idea of "well you just keep your dirty little secrets to yourself" causes alot of emotional problems to people when your on the other side of the fence.

sexuality is not something ANYONE should parade, blah blah, but they should be just as comfortable being themselves as any straight person is.

[faded glory]

Actually the majority doesnt want the Dont ask dont tell to go away.

NOBODY cares. It doesn't affect anyones morale, it doesn't affect the mission, it doesn't affect ANYTHING.

...It doesnt. Last I checked people who admit this are beatin up because they are checking out other men. That does effect moral.

sexuality is not something ANYONE should parade, blah blah, but they should be just as comfortable being themselves as any straight person is.

Agreed......they should feel comfortable for themselves. but its for there own protection to keep queit about it if your in the services. I think the unofficial number is about 10,000 have been dishonarbly dis-charged. So the number is farely low.

[connorkimbro]

If your gay, you can be in the armed services. Its called "Dont ask Dont tell"....Its works extremely well.

Not exactly. It's a double standard. I can tell whoever i wan't that i'm straight, but they can't be honest about themselves and tell people that they're gay?

Second, any "gay" acts are illegal under of course most civil laws, but also under UCMJ laws.

edit: to respond to your last post.

Perhaps the base i'm at is different from every other base there is, but here, people DON'T CARE. Just about everybody know's who's gay, and nobody does a damn thing. The people that beat others up for being gay is in the extreme minority, and they should of course be punished along with anyone else that beats people up, fined, rank reduced, etc.

You may say, don't ask don't tell is for protection, but why? If you're gay, it WOULD BE, your choice of whether to tell or not. If you felt threatened, you wouldn't have to tell if you didn't want to. But right now, their freedoms are LIMITED.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by faded glory
but its for there own protection to keep queit about it...

A typical bull**** line used to defend racism, sexism, or any other kind of discrimination.

[connorkimbro]

Another point to add (slightly different)

You may not realize it, but the don't ask don't tell policy actually ENCOURAGES gay people to join the army. Why? Because they know that if they don't like it, they have a free ticket out. There's not that idea of "oh, if i don't like it, i'll be STUCK in the army for x number of years!"

[connorkimbro]

A typical bull**** line used to defend racism, sexism, or any other kind of discrimination.

I agree, but don't you think it more effective to back up your points with logical arguments, rather than be offensive?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Osweld


A typical bull**** line used to defend racism, sexism, or any other kind of discrimination.

[Alert] Osweld Flings emotional/political dung [alert/]


Ok Ozzy my boy

Lets have them openly admit they are gay so they can have the sh!t beat out of them and then be court martialed for starting the fight

[connorkimbro]

Lets have them openly admit they are gay so they can have the sh!t beat out of them and then be court martialed for starting the fight

It wouldn't happen that way. Like i said, it would only give them the FREEDOM to be themselves. If they felt threatened, they could still hide it if they chose to. Second, nobody would get courtmarshaled for getting beat up. geez

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by connorkimbro I agree, but don't you think it more effective to back up your points with logical arguments, rather than be offensive?

Originally posted by faded glory
Lets have them openly admit they are gay so they can have the sh!t beat out of them and then be court martialed for starting the fight

How about we punish the discriminators instead of the discriminated?


That line has been used to defend every single kind of bigotry that has ever existed.

[connorkimbro]

How about we punish the discriminators instead of the discriminated?

Listen, would you please go away? You're on MY side, but you're arguing HORRIBLY, and you're making my side look bad. At least READ what people write. It seems you didn't even read what I wrote.

[faded glory]

No conner.......dont believe me? Check out some stories of people who have been on the receiving end of Discharges because they admited they were gay.

How about we punish the discriminators instead of the discriminated

Good luck. What are your suggestions? The President cannot meddle in internal Military affairs for political reasons.

Mr.Clinton tried this.

[Starchild]

quote:
Lets have them openly admit they are gay so they can have the sh!t beat out of them and then be court martialed for starting the fight

If you admit that you like blondes to redheads and I beat you up, will you get courtmartialed?

Saying you're gay, that you like blondes, that you're a legman or whatever is just saying a fact. The person that acts on that fact and carries out the assualt is the one that deserves to get punished. They started the fight by violently reacting to a harmless bit of information.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by connorkimbro

How about we punish the discriminators instead of the discriminated?

Listen, would you please go away? You're on MY side, but you're arguing HORRIBLY, and you're making my side look bad. At least READ what people write. It seems you didn't even read what I wrote.

I was replying to both of you at the same time. You wanted some logic behind my previous statement which is what I gave you.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be offensive. That line is complete bull****, I'm surprised that I even need to explain why.