Company fires all employees who smoke!

[notyoueither]

Several years now. And no, if they even thought of charging Asher for being gay, or Wilma for having children, they would get their asses handed to them in either the courts of law or the court of public opinion.

Heaven forbid they charge for drinking. I doubt many execs smoke (by how things are going) but they all drink.

[notyoueither]

Nope, smoking is the acceptable target.

I would bet that tobacco would be illegal now, except our governments make too much money from it.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Agathon
Man, this thread is a cluster****. Pity the poor gay smokers of the world. I still smoke, although it is getting a bit pricey and I will probably pack it in. I know it isn't very good for me, but I enjoy tobacco, it is an enjoyable substance to abuse. The health care costs thing is ridiculous. I pay a fortune in taxes on cigarettes which goes to fund the additional costs that smoking puts on the health system. Would that all such dangerous activities had similar taxes on them (McDeath for a start). I don't think I should be allowed to smoke anywhere, and that rules should be enforced so that non-smokers do not have to work next to someone smoking up a storm. If a company is being made to pay higher health insurance premiums because of smokers, the smokers should pay the difference. But what this article describes is a ridiculous form of paternalism. At most the company can justify a differential health premium for smokers, there is no justification for the wanton intrusion into people's private lives that has occurred in this case. Again, the morality police are out in force, trying to organize other people's lives for their own sense of power. They should make me king, I'd soon show them what happens when you take their logic to the nth degree - it's Plato's Republic for them, and that means mandatory geometry every morning at 5am and execution for people who like bad music.

Hmmm... something Agathon and I actually agree on... Oh... except "and that means mandatory geometry every morning at 5am and execution for people who like bad music" part

It's nice to see that some people see what kind of BS this all is, and what an invasion of privacy it is. Yeah, I don't think any smoker will deny the possible health problems, but we all have our reasons to smoke.

Again... I just find it weird that people who have been discriminated against can rally around the "screw the smokers" flag, and feel it is right and justified. You would think they, of all people, would understand the concept of wrongful discrimination...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It's interesting to see who the bigots are in this thread, who supports discrimination against a group when said group does no harm to the others (i.e firing people from work because they smoke out of the workplace).

It certainly puts some other debates in perspective, like the gay rights debates.

How does this thread change any perspective on the gay rights issue?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


How does this thread change any perspective on the gay rights issue?

Maybe because the biggest anti smoking bigot is gay

I know it made me wonder why I go to the effort to defend their rights when "certain" gays here are attacking my rights

But then again... I won't stoop to that level, and will continue to defend the rights of others

[Boris Godunov]

So one gay out of how many on 'Poly is defending it, and it could change someone's perspective on the gay rights issue and make one question their support of those rights?

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that issues such as that stood on their merits, not on who defended them.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So one gay out of how many on 'Poly is defending it, and it could change someone's perspective on the gay rights issue and make one question their support of those rights?

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that issues such as that stood on their merits, not on who defended them.

I just said it won't change my thinking

However, it's kind of sad to see somebody repeatedly say that it's not OK to discriminate against what he is, but that's it's OK for him to discriminate against others.

From a smokers perspective... we see.

"I'm gay, but it's wrong to discriminate against me"
"You're a smoker, and I can discriminate against you"

Being gay is ok, but being a smoker isn't!

It just makes me a tad angry to see somebody who falls in a discriminated group not see that his actions are just as bad as people he whines about it when it happens to him

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
How does this thread change any perspective on the gay rights issue?

It doesn't change my perspective on the issues (Asher's ramblings won't change my opinion one bit), but it will change my perspective on the debates I can see here, in which Asher strongly participates.

This here thread leads me to better understand Asher, and it will change my perspective on Asher's opinions in gay threads.

(Sorry for discussing the posters)

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
If the company is required to pay for their employees health insurance I don't see why they can't choose employees using the same criteria insurance companies already use to assess the health-risks of their customers.

I have no problem with an employer not hiring smokers. That is all well and good.

But this company fired 4 people for refusing to take a drug test to see if they smoke. These people were already hired.

4 people out of 200 doesn't make much of a difference in healthcar costs.

If this company doesn't want to hire more smokers, that is their right.

If my company said we had to take random drug tests I'd refuse as well. Simply because they were not part of the original terms of employment.

ACK!

[Dis]

ooh, this could be my first 500 post thread.

[Tuberski]

Everything has been said.

Ming, please close this thread.



ACK!

[Dis]

yeah, where's Asher to stir up some more debate.

[Asher]

It's interesting to me that people view smokers as victims.

They choose to smoke, they lack the willpower to quit like most people from their generation -- it's their damn fault. Period.

You won't get any sympathy from me.

The fact is you cost more to the health care system. You cost more to insure. For that reason, a private company in an at-will employment state can fire you for raising their cost and refusing to do anything about it (with 2 years notice, even).

I support discrimination based on somebody's intentional actions. I believe a company can fire somebody after they become a felon, too. Oh, those poor felons. Somebody hand me a kleenex, what a persecuted bunch they are.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It doesn't change my perspective on the issues (Asher's ramblings won't change my opinion one bit), but it will change my perspective on the debates I can see here, in which Asher strongly participates.

This here thread leads me to better understand Asher, and it will change my perspective on Asher's opinions in gay threads.

(Sorry for discussing the posters)

There is a fundamental difference on discriminating against something out of their control (skin color, height, sex, sexual orientation) and discriminating against something a person chooses to do.

And I don't buy for one second that it's impossible to quit smoking.

And for the constant comparison to fat people, too -- if the company gave them 2 years notice and assistance like they gave the smokers (probably access to a gym, weight-less program, nutritionist, etc), then that would be legal too. If people choose not to do anything about their health, which is costing the company money, then they're taking advantage of the company's generosity in paying for your health care.

[Dis]

And of course I agree with Asher, but I'm not sure if he puts it the best way.

As he has mentioned earlier, discrimination happens all the time. Especially with regards with age. But employers also discriminate with personality. An employer isn't going to hire someone with a bad personality.

All you guys can fantasize about a pinko commie world where everyone is treated equal, but it just isn't going to happen.