The Cylons are coming!

[DRoseDARs]

@Whoha
But if the Cylons had built up all over the place as you say, then wouldn't the 12 Colonies have noticed? That's another shoddy part of the BSG universe that I find absolutely loathsome: Humanity, advanced and star-faring as it is, is limited to one frelling planetary system of 12 planets and umpteen moons/satellites? Wtf is that? If that's the case, then why, after 40 some odd years, didn't the Cylons have the ability to completely wipe out every last vestige of Humanity? Obviously, the attack wasn't simultaneous but staggered, though no less devastating. They should have been able to completely swarm Humanity with no survivors escaping. As I said before I absolutely loathe stories describing star-faring civilizations that live solely in one star system inspite of their FTL capabilities. In the case of BSG02 I can over look it for the time being. It doesn't detract too much imo.

Edit: xpost

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by SpencerH


He is mad. She's not aboard the galactica.

Yep

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Here you go MikeH

Thanks.

[GePap]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs

Network execs make decisions based mostly on economics and ratings: If they don't feel the ratings justify the expense, they won't do it. The miniseries most certainly was a testing-of-the-waters production to see if there'd be enough interest afterwards to make a full-blown remade series of BSG02. The diehard original fans would scream bloody murder if the mini was too botched and likely damage the receptiveness of a series. That didn't happen and so now we have a series.

Well, thank you for making my point: the movie was intended as a test flag, and hence why it is open ended-because they wanted to see if a series would follow. Having the crew kill themselves in some gigantic and suicidal final attack would have meant no possibility of a real series afterwards.

[GePap]

On the Cyclons having some immense empire- why would anyone think so? If they had such overwhelming forces to the entirety of humanity, why go through all the deception and count on a computer virus to win you the day? Just blow the idiots out of space-not like the Cylons would care about some temporary loses, now would they?

The fact that the main cylon strategy was based on deception and stealth would make it seem to me that the Cylons were not strong enough to take on the whole human empire by open force of arms. But once they had the ace in the whole, their forces were enough to deal a death blow. That of course does not change the fact that it is silly to think that one single museum piece will all of a sudden be enough to defeat the cylon fleet.

[SpencerH]

I think the idea that Adama wanted to continue fighting makes complete sense from this old soldiers perspective. That he chose to do otherwise, once he realized that his duty was to protect the remnants of humanity not to continue fighting a useless action, speaks to the complexity of the character.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


We can stop right there. They don't know that for certain. It is certain that if they engage the Cylons, they will die. So, as Gepap already mentioned, one course of action has a 100% chance of death while the other has an unknown, although potentially high chance of death. So the latter is still the smarter decision. Not rocket science.

You're making a lot of assumptions about how built up the Cylons are. We don't know any of that for sure.

Space is very, very, very big and very, very, very empty. Even if the Cylons had a million ships, the BSG fleet could still successfully elude them. There are hundreds of billions of potential places to hide, after all.

the cylon 1 cpu fighters are making routine ftl jumps, it is a safe bet that they have space mapped out. More then that they managed to totally redesign from the ground up every single ship and fighter that they have.

The fleet can't hide in empty space, they need food fuel,water and eventually munitions. habitable planets are going to be rare enough to be worth putting a single listening device for them.

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
@Whoha
But if the Cylons had built up all over the place as you say, then wouldn't the 12 Colonies have noticed?

they hadn't done an FTL jump in 22 years according to the XO. It seems that they were scared of screwing up more then finding what was out there. They also mentioned leaving the Cylons alone.

Originally posted by GePap
On the Cyclons having some immense empire- why would anyone think so? If they had such overwhelming forces to the entirety of humanity, why go through all the deception and count on a computer virus to win you the day? Just blow the idiots out of space-not like the Cylons would care about some temporary loses, now would they?

I don't know, their behavior is quite inconsistent. at Ragnar they were quite willing to sacrafice fighters for nothing(running straight into fire) but the bigger ships stood off while the humans were escaping to safety. Meanwhile we never get an accurate picture of the "whole" cylon fleet, it is just mentioned. But it is safe to say that since every ship they have is less then 40 years old, and they have quite a few that are as good or better then the Human stuff that they have done quite a good job of expanding.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Whoha

The fleet can't hide in empty space, they need food fuel,water and eventually munitions. habitable planets are going to be rare enough to be worth putting a single listening device for them.

You still don't answer away the simple equation: one choice is a possibility of death of 1, while the other is a possibility o death of .99999 etc approaching but NOT 1.
That difference, no matter how small, is worth it.

I don't know, their behavior is quite inconsistent. at Ragnar they were quite willing to sacrafice fighters for nothing(running straight into fire) but the bigger ships stood off while the humans were escaping to safety. Meanwhile we never get an accurate picture of the "whole" cylon fleet, it is just mentioned. But it is safe to say that since every ship they have is less then 40 years old, and they have quite a few that are as good or better then the Human stuff that they have done quite a good job of expanding.

Well, fighters are much cheaper than Capital ships- maybe they think like you, and believe the possiblity of their eventual survival being 0, so why lose capital ships now, when you can hunt them down at your leiasure?

As for fleet size = expansion, why? The Cylons, on a single planet, could probably build up a massive fleet- its not like they need space for agriculture, or that massive environmental degredation would be an issue- just dig the entire planet or system up and turn it all into industry. Just one Cylon world would be enough, if it was left alone for long enough.

[Boris Godunov]

There were indications given in the movie and on the website that the Cylons fighters aren't manned anyway, but remote controlled--although, what that means wrt to a robotic race, I'm not sure. But if there is a difference to the Cylons, then it would explain why they are willing to use fighters as fodder while the manned capital ships stand off.

I don't think we can say that the Cylons don't care about their losses. Considering that the plot of the show is going to make them out to be religious zealots, there isn't any reason (so far) to think that they have no regard for their own casualties.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Considering that the plot of the show is going to make them out to be religious zealots,

Why do you think that?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Why do you think that?

It's already been outlined from other sources (also keep in mind the discussions that the scientist had with the Cylon woman and Adama had with the reporter wrt god). The Cylons believe that god made the humans just for the purpose of the humans making the Cylons, and that the Cylons are god's vengeance against the humans for being an errant race. You'll note the human's religious belief is not monotheistic, but is polytheistic. The Cylons believe there is only one god and that the humans are infidels.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


It's already been outlined from other sources (also keep in mind the discussions that the scientist had with the Cylon woman and Adama had with the reporter wrt god). The Cylons believe that god made the humans just for the purpose of the humans making the Cylons, and that the Cylons are god's vengeance against the humans for being an errant race. You'll note the human's religious belief is not monotheistic, but is polytheistic. The Cylons believe there is only one god and that the humans are infidels.

Amazingly, I missed both of those discussions. Its an interesting plot twist.

[Boris Godunov]

I agree! It certainly adds dimension to the Cylons instead of making them "evil" robots who are just intent on destroying humanity.

The scientist/Cylon discussion was on Caprica. She mentioned god, and the scientist mocked her for believing in mysticism. She got upset with him for doing so. This was before he knew she was a Cylon.

The Adama/reporter conversation was on BSG, and the reporter explicitely asks the commander, what if the Cylons were made by god to punish humanity? Adama replies that god didn't make the Cylons, humans did. And we know what happens with the reporter...

[SpencerH]

Thanks. This show has so much promise. If I could only vanquish the mental images of the original.

[Boris Godunov]

Here are some review excerpts. Note the positive references to Farscape. And the not-so-positive references to Star Trek.

The Hollywood Reporter <http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/> says:

For character-driven, hard-edged science fiction, the return of "Battlestar Galactica" can't be beaten. Where the original series cruised in with campy derring-do, this re-imagining of the franchise is "space noir," with actors playing it for high, realistic stakes. Old fans of the series may be a mite disappointed at the changes, but this fast-paced, tense and dramatic hourlong has plenty of choice rewards for viewers and upholds the smart promise of the 2003 miniseries. … The visuals and sound effects are extremely cool, with spaceships rendered as both sleek and dangerous, and the noises of fast-moving fighter ships toned down from the high-pitched whines of the original series. Characters Lee "Apollo" Adama (Jamie Bamber), who is the commander's son; Kara "Starbuck" Thrace (Katee Sackhoff); and Colonel Tigh (Michael Hogan) are all generously dysfunctional and fun to follow.


Variety <http://www.variety.com/> says:

Niftily picking up where the 2003 miniseries left off, the new franchise provides solid storytelling … Those who don't frequent Internet chat rooms have missed much of the off-screen drama surrounding "Galactica's" voyage, with plenty of overheated bleating from fans of the original that has gone a long way toward giving sci-fi nerds a bad name. Fortunately, producers of the new show have mostly tuned out the static and stuck to their guns, crafting a very adult series whose principle shortcoming is being almost unrelentingly grim -- though not inappropriately so, given the subject matter. … in terms of top-notch sci-fi fare on a budget, this impressive new vessel flies well beyond its predecessor.


The Los Angeles Times <http://www.latimes> says:

… all of the characters and relationships are deepened in the new show. Far more serious in tone, Sci Fi's "BG" greatly improves upon the bad scripts and wooden acting of the original show (which, admittedly, is part of its charm for some people). The show could use a little more humor, and that may come as supporting players step into more prominent roles, but the first several episodes bode well for a series that should eventually win over fans, old and new.


USA Today <http://www.usatoday.com/> says:

Those looking for a more exciting space-adventure alternative to Enterprise should be thrilled by the series return of the hit miniseries Battlestar Galactica … revival of the late '70s show — considered camp now, and lousy then. There's nothing camp about this darker, smarter, morally ambiguous update, which again follows the survivors of a sneak Cylon attack as they try to save humanity and find Earth. … The show stresses the sex a little too aggressively, the better to pull in teen boys. Nevertheless, this promising show is more the heir to Farscape than the old Battlestar, which is all for the best.


The Arizona Republic <http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...actica12.html/> says:

… takes itself very seriously. It is the most ambitious science-fiction series since The Twilight Zone. … Friday's series opener is as compelling a piece of suspense and human drama as anything on the major networks. …


The Boston Herald <http://theedge.bostonherald.com/tvNe...rticleid=63391> says:

… could end up being one of the best sci-fi television outings ever … An intelligent, attention-demanding, character-driven show, it marks a maturing of the sci-fi series genre. … it's the dense narrative and impressive cast that stand out. The episodes aren't neat little ``Trek'' allegories or tidy ``Stargate'' shoot-'em-ups. The series is more like a sci-fi ``The Big Red One,'' moving through the real and sometimes small emotions and personal interplay of life under close-quarters duress. Crises often play out over multiple episodes of the continuing story line. Sometimes this makes the pacing feel off and the tone flat - until an episode or two later you realize the story was building to some ingenious surprise. This is a show that takes its time and challenges its audience, which is as welcome as it is rare. …


The San Jose Mercury News <http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...0605131.htm?1c> says:

… [the miniseries] caused a huge uproar among fans of the original who seemed to have forgotten just how bad the show was. … now back as a weekly series -- and quite a good one … far darker, a good deal scarier and a whole lot sexier than the original. … loaded with surprisingly strong stuff, including provocative takes on terrorism and the politics of genocide. The special effects are unexpectedly good. And the acting … is light-years better than in the original.


Newsday <http://www.newsday.com/entertainment...-tv-columnists> says:

… the new version from producer Ronald D. Moore more than fulfills the promise of his miniseries smash of a year ago. … This is no video game …


People Magazine <http://people.aol.com/people> says:

… there’s more than enough action to keep the show from getting preachy … Unfortunately, the Jan. 21 episode suffers from guest-star casting of Richard Hatch (Apollo in the ABC original), who seems rather rusty as a supposedly charismatic rebel. …


The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette <http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05009/437305.stm> says:

easily the best show the network has put on since "Farscape." … smart, deliberative drama … Two things make this series a vast improvement over the miniseries: Show runner Ron Moore and his writing staff now feel free to dig deeper into the characters, and the show's pace and tone, though still sometimes slow and somber by conventional standards, has been opened up and made more accessible. Lighter moments have been added and the show's scope has grown more epic ...