Personal ID's, how is it in your country?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by yaroslav
What is Ausweis? The ID? Were the terrorist or criminals forced to carry a ID in the Netherlands before thtis law?

Ausweis is German for ID. It's a reference to WWII, when in occupied Europe everyone had to carry Ausweis around wherever they went and the Nazis loved randomly stopping people to ask for it.

Cause that's exactly what they've brought back to the Netherlands now...

[yaroslav]

Were the terrorist or criminals forced to carry a ID in the Netherlands before this law?

I don't quite understand why you associate being forced to carry ID with criminals and terrorist

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Thorgal
How exactly freedom is affected by having an ID?

Because if you take a stroll to get some air and forgot to take it with you, the cops can arrest you and throw you in jail, or at least give you a hefty fine.

If that's not a restriction of freedom I don't know what is...

[alva]

We have ID's, quite usefull I say.

They know everything about you anyway, so stop being naieve, at least now, you know that they know.

I don't get stopped at every corner by a cop to show it or anything like that either.
In this world ( even pre-9/11, remember, that's when terrorism started. ) they are a necessity IMHO.

Do I oppose them from an ideological point of view: Yup, you can bet your behind, not so if I'm realistic though.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by yaroslav
Were the terrorist or criminals forced to carry a ID in the Netherlands before this law?

No. I think everyone was obliged to own some kind of ID (not sure if it was legally enforced, but you need it for things like soliciting for a job or social benefits, checking into a hotel, entering an airport, opening a bank account, etc, so practically you can't do without one). But it was never necessary to carry one on you all the time.

I don't quite understand why you associate being forced to carry ID with criminals and terrorist

Because you're violating the law if you don't. Someone who violates the law is commonly known as a criminal. And the reason for passing the law was fighting terrorism, so whenever the cops ask you for ID apparently they think you may be a terrorist...

[Flandrien]

I always wonder how people identify themselves in a bank / post office if they don't have a proper ID card.

[Thorgal]

Because if you take a stroll to get some air and forgot to take it with you, the cops can arrest you and throw you in jail, or at least give you a hefty fine.

If that's not a restriction of freedom I don't know what is...

You could be arrested if you forget to get dressed and you go to the street naked. Is that a restriction of freedom too?

BTW, the police does not ask you for the ID if there is not a very good reason. They do not go for the street saying Achtung! at random.

[Gangerolf]

- There are authorised persons to whom I HAVE to show it if they ask

- I oppose compulsory personal IDs


I don't HAVE to show the police anything. (Unless they arrest me, I guess.) There are no ID cards. And I don't really see the point of having one either. It's sounds very commie and is just one step closer to 1984 IMO.

If I have to prove who I am I can always use my driver's licence, credit card, passport, etc.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by alva
They know everything about you anyway, so stop being naieve, at least now, you know that they know.

They know f*ck all about me, or I wouldn't have to fill in a dozen forms when I want to request a copy of my birth certificate or fill in my taxes

I don't get stopped at every corner by a cop to show it or anything like that either.

That's exactly what I'm afraid will start happening in the Netherlands.

In this world ( even pre-9/11, remember, that's when terrorism started. ) they are a necessity IMHO.

Why? What do they accomplish? Do you think terrorists will now think "oh sh*t, the Netherlans turned into a fortress, we better not go there anymore"? It's just one more in a long line of measures recently to punish the good guys for something the bad guys did. The only thing that this will lead to is far more IDs being lost or stolen, which will of course help terrorists and criminals greatly in securing false IDs. That will not only avoid them getting caught by random police searches, it will also make it easier for them to open bank accounts, enter airports, etc, etc...

[Jon Miller]

The US one is

only required for a certain activity

has your picture on it

you only getr in trouble for not having it if you are driving

and I oppose compulsory ids

JM

[Flandrien]

Originally posted by Locutus
That's exactly what I'm afraid will start happening in the Netherlands.

Why ?

What's the difference with being asked for your driver's license and being asked for your personal ID ?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Flandrien
I always wonder how people identify themselves in a bank / post office if they don't have a proper ID card.

As noted before, there's a difference between OWNING an ID card (and using it at specific occasions) and CARRYING it on you 24-7.

Originally posted by Thorgal
You could be arrested if you forget to get dressed and you go to the street naked.

Yeah, becuase you wouldn't notice if you were walking on the street butt-naked

BTW, the police does not ask you for the ID if there is not a very good reason. They do not go for the street saying Achtung! at random.

Who says they won't? That's exactly what I'm afraid will happen. The guidelines for this are very vague. Reasons the Justice Department has cited as examples for being allowed to check for ID: traffic monitoring, being in the facinity of the scene of a crime or accident, maintaining public order, solving crime. At any point in time, at least 2 of those reasons can be invoked.

A researcher already did an experiment by letting some guys in a big car drive past a cafe terrace a few times. When the guys were white, nothing happened. When the guys were Middle Eastern immigrants, the cops were there in no time to ask for their IDs. Tell me that's not random... (Well, actually it's not -- it's racism, which is even worse).

[Az]

Same as Eli, but I have to say that AFAIK, Driver's licenses can be shown instead.

I have nothing against them.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Flandrien


Why ?

What's the difference with being asked for your driver's license and being asked for your personal ID ?

When I'm driving a car they may ask for my driver's licence, providing they caught me violating traffic laws or they're doing regulated alcohol inspections (keyword: regulated) and the like.

There's a difference between that and being allowed to randomly stop people in the street and ask them for ID, even if they're weeding their garden, just taking a stroll, or doing their groceries, minding their own business...

[alva]

There's a difference between that and being allowed to randomly stop people in the street and ask them for ID, even if they're weeding their garden, just taking a stroll, or doing their groceries, minding their own business...

Doesn't happen, WWII is past us for some time now.
Just as before, a cop needs a valid reason to stop you, why would having an ID card make any difference?