Is the US a warlike country?

[Colonâ„¢]

Spiffor, wouldn't you think France's emphasis on coalitions and diplomacy isn't due to simple necessity?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Colon
Spiffor, wouldn't you think France's emphasis on coalitions and diplomacy isn't due to simple necessity?

In the realpolitical scheme of things? Yes. The diplomatic scene is pretty much the only one where our international power is significant (thanks to our veto at the UNSC). The only places other than the UNSC where we fashion we're powerful is the EU, and our former African colonies.

However, the coverage of our coalized wars could have been something very different. Our media could have shown our military results (heck, we contributed to the bombings too!), and the people could have derived pride from our military victories.

Instead, we prefer not to know too much about the operations by themselves. At least not the operations we're involved in (there was quite some interest and quite some gloating when the Americans were slowed down for a few days during Gulf War 2)

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Spiffor

In the realpolitical scheme of things? Yes. The diplomatic scene is pretty much the only one where our international power is significant (thanks to our veto at the UNSC). The only places other than the UNSC where we fashion we're powerful is the EU, and our former African colonies.

However, the coverage of our coalized wars could have been something very different. Our media could have shown our military results (heck, we contributed to the bombings too!), and the people could have derived pride from our military victories.

Instead, we prefer not to know too much about the operations by themselves. At least not the operations we're involved in (there was quite some interest and quite some gloating when the Americans were slowed down for a few days during Gulf War 2)

Realpolitik and otherwise. I'd believe the public opinion is bound to move away from supporting unilateralism if it isn't a viable option. For the US unilateralism in many cases is a viable option. In other words, they do it because they can. Subsequently the focus on France's role in those coalition wars you're mentioning may not be large because US' role is dominant.

Besides, not many Frenchmen will consider France to be occupying Ivory Coast because AFAIK it simply isn't doing so. At first the idea that the US was 'occupying' Iraq wasn't very common over in the US either. (and I'm not sure if it is now)

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Exactly how many UN operations has the US taken part in? A handfull of token peace operations: Korea, Somolia, and Gulf War 1, and that later one, and in all those cases, we asked the UN to bless what we were doing. I can't recall a time the UN asked the U.S. to go into a combat situation. In any event, those handful of fights don't come close the nearly 50 other fights we've been in since WWII.

50?

ACK!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Colon
Besides, not many Frenchmen will consider France to be occupying Ivory Coast because AFAIK it simply isn't doing so.

We only occupied Abijan for a few days, but it had all the perks of a military occupation: our military had control over the city, made some places off-limits, restricted the ability to move, and imposed curfew IIRC. Since Ivory Coast is supposed to be an independent country, I don't see how you could not call that an "occupation". Well, you could go with the French media's understatement ("took control"), but that's the same.

At first the idea that the US was 'occupying' Iraq wasn't very common over in the US either. (and I'm not sure if it is now)

But do you think this idea isn't very common because:
- the US is indeed not occupying Iraq, thus all those who hold this belief exaggerate?
- many Americans don't want to associate their country with the word "occupation"?

[Fake Boris]

The day Rome was ransacked, its nobility started to have a different opinion of war.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Spiffor

We only occupied Abijan for a few days, but it had all the perks of a military occupation: our military had control over the city, made some places off-limits, restricted the ability to move, and imposed curfew IIRC. Since Ivory Coast is supposed to be an independent country, I don't see how you could not call that an "occupation". Well, you could go with the French media's understatement ("took control"), but that's the same.

You said it yourself, you only occupied the capital for a couple of days. I'd say there's quite a difference in scale to what's taking place in Iraq. Moreover France hasn't overseen the instalment of a new regime, it's merely mediating between the already-existing regime and rebels. (whatever bias there may exist)

- many Americans don't want to associate their country with the word "occupation"?

Of course. People tend to view their country's actions abroad in the most positive light possible. "occupation" is turned into "liberation" and "diplomacy out of necessity" becomes "diplomacy out of pacifism".

[GePap]

NO, the US is NOT a warlike country, in the sense that the American people, or governments, seek war.

Lets take those "decisive" wars mentioned:

1. As was already stated, friction with England did not end in the Revolution, and we did get the war of 1812.

2. The Civil War- come on, do we not remember the endless threads? if that war was so damned decisive, whats with all the Confederate flags???

3. WW2- yes, this is THE war Americans like tot hink about- a nice, clearcut, obvious good vs Evil war, no gray. US as shinningh knight, plus the end and our actions afterwards make us feel nice and warm. BUt a few realities- the US went in 2 years late, ONLY after direct attack- while the US was most concerned about Germany, we were most acitve in the Pacific trying to pressure Japan to stop threatening our interests in China.

Compared to most other countries, the last 225 years of American history have not particularly been more of less warlike than any other western state- as for the notion DanS stated, that American know when war is necessary for the national; interest- BULL. I say bull when it comes to the average citizen- normal people on the street know nothing of national interests- not in the US, not anywhere. And Europe sure as hell knows about waging wars when its interests are at stake- France and the UK saw plenty of action during the cold war on the waning days of their empires.

No, thew question is, does the US behave any differently from a Great Power? The answer is generally NO. The UK, when iot was preeminent in the world, had its own notions of civilizing the lesser peoples. America in fact is rather short on Imperial adventures compared to the other more advanced states. We are not as insular and self-centered as China, but more insular and self-centred than Europe. But in the end, what matters is the fact the US is a Great Power, and all great powers wage war- you can;t be a peacenik Great Power.

[DanS]

as for the notion DanS stated, that American know when war is necessary for the national; interest- BULL

Where did I state that?

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS


Where did I state that?

In you statement that Americans accept war is sometimes in the national interest- unless you were simply pointing out a truism [because every people know war is sometimes in the naitonal interest], the statement has no other workable context.

[DanS]

I'm just curious where I said anything related to that. A quote would be nice...

[GePap]

I think most Americans follow the centuries-old notion that war is an acceptable extension of national geopolitics

From your first page post, which seems to be simply a statement of Truism.

[DanS]

My first page post didn't touch half a world away from what you paraphrased, meathead.

[Heresson]

Stop insulting yourself, please.

US is a war-like country compared to most of western Europe, but it's sometimes better than blind pacifism of many in Europe.
Also, it comes out of that USA actually can be successful in war, while Europe.... uh...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Heresson
Also, it comes out of that USA actually can be successful in war, while Europe.... uh...

We are very successful at killing each other