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I wasn't aware that the point of thread had been so narrowly defined. 
Nice copout though.
Nice copout though.
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln -
Let's make one of these lame polls for every country in the world.
Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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The vast majority of America's wars indeed have decided things once and for all. Even Vietnam decided things once and for all with regard to that country. That's why Gulf War I was so unsatisfying to many Americans -- even to those like myself who didn't support the war in the first place. Your analogy about keys and doors is strained at best.Why not?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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OK - Poll - is France a weenie like country?“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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I think France is much more warlike than most other European countries.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Hawaii wasn't a state but it was officially a US territory much like every state (other then the first 13) were at one time or another.Originally posted by Dauphin
At the time Pearl Harbour wasn't part of the US. Statehood had been refused a few years beforehand. (?)Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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no simply because at the time you guys entered the second world war you hadn't de facto a superstatus among the other nations of the world.Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would you see that? Simply because it helped your country?
ww2 was a war in which you had to defend your country
korea, cuba, vietnam were wars in which you had to seccure political foreign interests of your country
iraq is a war in which you seccure foreign natural resources for your country. the whole war on terror thing is just a masquerade to hide the latter, as has already been demonstrated on multiple occasions."Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."Comment
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The "no's" are up to 22.5%.
ACK!
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!Comment
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you can say that again...Originally posted by DanS
I think France is much more warlike than most other European countries.
but so is every other country in the world which was once powerful enough to claim dominance in the international political landscape"Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."Comment
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Luckily apolyton is not indicative of any real world situation.. making the poll useless.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Re: Is the US a warlike country?
The Americans that were in the military, like myself, were, for the most part, volunteers.Originally posted by Spiffor
To many, the military is also very formative. Many posters here (despite 'Poly being far more liberal than the bulk of the US) identify strongly with their military past. I don't remember even one non-American poster sporting its military past as a main aspect of their identity.
Most people in other countries that served in the military, are required to serve in the military.
When you choose to do something it becomes part of your identity.
ACK!
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!Comment
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I voted no instinctively. And I think Spiffor was a bit weak on presenting the arguments for why the US isn't a warlike country.
After some thinking about adding some arguments, now I"m worried. Are we a warlike country?
I was going to make a case that unlike other nations, America doesn't war to conquest. Only for defense or to protect friends, allies and human rights (generally). Then when factoring in the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War and all the Indian Wars.... eh, I'm not so sure anymore.
Then the factor of how truely divided this country is over the Iraq War, and how many of us are genuinely opposed to it would be a good reason. However at most (though not all) points there has been majority support for the war. Whether by deception or genuine support, I dunno. One point Spiffor noted about our support for the military in this country does factor in. Unlike other nations who are ashamed of their military, we are quite proud and supportive here, myself included. I do know several people who opposed the war going into it, but once it began and our boys were in danger they felt it was their duty to be supportive of the whole endevor. Interesting. So then the question in my mind is can we count this kind of support as genuine warlikeness or just a moral sense of duty to our soldiers in harm's way. Or is there s difference? Perhaps, as Spiff suggests, that moral duty makes us warlike.
Perhaps the best argument against a warlike America would be a comparison between other cultures at other periods in history. Is America's view of military power and exercise of it considering its absolute dominance in the globe significantly different from other's? I'd argue it is absolutely. Compare the 1800's British to the late 1900's Americans. The Brits used their power to enrich themselves, America uses its power to protect others or ourselves. Even misguided wars (in my opinion) like Vietnam and Iraq were done primarily for altuistic or defensive reasons at great cost to ourselves.
Perhaps we shouldn't be asking whether America is warlike or not, but rather how does America use war?Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - RahComment
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You're basically agreeing with my observation that Americans think that war is decisive.Originally posted by DanS
The vast majority of America's wars indeed have decided things once and for all. Even Vietnam decided things once and for all with regard to that country. That's why Gulf War I was so unsatisfying to many Americans -- even to those like myself who didn't support the war in the first place. Your analogy about keys and doors is strained at best.
But the reason I think that American' views on the decisiveness of wars are a problem is because they are wrong. There is nothing special about America that guarantees swift, total victories. It's all been a matter of good historical fortune, and that is no guarantee of future success.Comment
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Banana... it can be both. Americans are warlike in some respects and not warlike in others. I think that there is a duel between the isolationist past and the idea that America has to be a force for good and positive change in the world. It leads to interesting decision making in terms of warmaking belief.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Who ever said anything about swift, total victories? Vietnam was arguably a long, tortuous defeat. Indeed, you could argue that the Cold War was one of the longest in history and ended in a victory. Both were decisive. Even with insurgencies, the US fought a decisive victory from the Phillipines over the span of some 30 years at the beginning of the 20th century.There is nothing special about America that guarantees swift, total victories.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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