"war in Iraq can still be won" Yay! - wait a minute - can still be won?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Am I the only one that gets scared when the mods start talking in war metaphors?

I heard Mingapulco just finished building the Military Academy.

[Mr. Harley]

Boris, that is an excellent post. I have been wondering about how to correct for the improved body armor and medical systems (technology and deployment) so as to compare this war to Vietnam. While I would like to see the original source material, everything I am familiar with (i.e. comparing Hue to Fallujah, etc.) is born out by his article. Maybe I will have to start reading slate.

Giancarlo, it is a good post and article. The primary thrust was to determine the level of fighting and stressors on the soldiers and you have provided nothing to refute anything there. If you want to argue about some of the domestic issues and those conclusions, fine. However, show some respect for the troopers stuck over there.

This article actually analysizes this war in comparison to others and shows what a terrible conflict it is for our soldiers over their. It matches what the emails of my dead brother-in-law, just before he got shot by the sniper. Do you want me to start posting those, or will you at least grant that point - the soldiers over there are in an intense, asymetric conflict that takes a terrible toll on them.

Can anyone here get and post an original copy of the Article in the New England Journal of Medicine.

[Agathon]

If Rumsfeld goes, Bush is in trouble. He's pegged his own credibility to Rumsfeld's. Perhaps his last chance to get rid of him without complete humiliation was right after the election.

But I doubt Rumsfeld will go. Bush and co are simply too arrogant to listen to anyone.

[techumseh]

If it comes down to saving Dubyas's butt, Rummy will go.

[Agathon]

I think it may have gone too far for that. Bush has nailed himself to Rumsfeld's post.

[Alexander's Horse]

I posted months ago, perhaps a year ago, that Iraq casualty rates were comparable with Vietnam, taking into account more catastrophically wounded are surviving. Some people just laughed. Not laughing now I suspect.

Its amazing how many predictions about this conflict from liberal critics and experts have come true.

And how all the neocons and chickenhawks have been so wrong. Notice how quiet they are now? Even Fox.

This war has gone exactly as expected so far i.e. very badly.

[Mr. Harley]

I can like Alexander's Horse say "I told you so" though there is a certain bitter aspect for me, as many of you know. To remind certain posters of history

https://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105023

This was Ned's "Rumsfeld - Time Person of the Year 2003" thread. Every critique I made then has been shown to be true, and as an added benefit my sister got one of this incompetent sod's "autopen" signed letters of condolence for her husband. I guess signing two-three letters a day is too much work. As I said earlier in the thread, I believe he belongs in the the circle of Dante's hell reserved for evil advisors.

[Agathon]

I see that my opinion has not changed from that thread:

Just like Time to nominate a total gonad.

Imran's Rumsfeld worship looks embarraasing now.

The highlight of the thread is obviously Sava calling Britney Spears a "penis pincushion".

[Sandman]

One glaring (yet often overlooked) aspect of the Iraq campaign is the utter, utter, economic mismanagement of the country by the Americans. Their demented adherence to free-market policies has left the economy of Iraq devastated; unemployment is at 60%, last I heard.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The neocon agenda is truly wrong. Its their righteousness which is the worst part and blinds them. The arrogance is frightening, as is the link to Christian fundamentalism.

I don't think average Americans really have any idea how hated they are becoming in the world. This is a truly terrible development. All free countries need the US to be strong and respected.

The only parallels I can think of is the way Germans were regarded in the first half of the 20th century, or the Brits in the 19th century. Almost the whole world wanted to see them go down - and eventually they did.

How the Bush Administration trashed the enormous international goodwill after 9/11 just staggers me. One of the biggest foreign policy blunders of all time.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
OK, their (the neocons) idea of a free Iraq, directly copied from the United States the neocons know they have a mandate for (creating it domestically as well as in Iraq), and to hell with local preferences and culture. I was stating their ideation, if you look at my posts since I joined you would know I've been opposed to this administration from the start. And I've buried family members due to their mistakes.

Techumseh, they don't want the oil. They want the power, the control, to reshape the world in the image they see as instrinsically right. That is why they are willing to stomp on the US constitution as well as meddle in the world. They KNOW they are right, and that because they are right they will prevail. And of course this will include US led multinationals getting rich off of local resources, with a pro-large business agenda without silly things like workers rights, environmental regulation, etc.

They do not understand the old conservative values that it is process and institutions that make a country free and democratic. My country has done alot of things about which I am not proud, just as it has done things for which I am proud. What frightens me is that there is nothing this administration has done which fills me with pride. For the first time in my life I have been embarressed to be an American, or at least to be represented to the world by this administration. I have always worked against them, and politiced and supported local elections as best I could, but sadly that's not enough in today's disUnited States.

This is one of the best posts ever, and I fully agree 100% with this.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
I can like Alexander's Horse say "I told you so" though there is a certain bitter aspect for me, as many of you know. To remind certain posters of history

https://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105023

Ted Striker was indifferent at the time but was wondering why the American Soldier was not the Person of the Year.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I agree - the best thing that could happen would be for the US coalition to withdraw asap.

That's the absolute worst thing that could happen. The reason is that Iraq would then become a failed state like Afghanistan and it really would become a haven for international terrorism. It wasn't before but it will be unless we leave in the right way.

[Ted Striker]

Yup

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I posted months ago, perhaps a year ago, that Iraq casualty rates were comparable with Vietnam, taking into account more catastrophically wounded are surviving. Some people just laughed. Not laughing now I suspect.

AH, I don't care how you massage the numbers the casualty rates are a fraction of Vietnam.