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The Second Coming of Apple

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  • #31
    Xbox makes chump change compared to MS's other divisions (though it'd still be good money for most other firms).

    And you say Office isn't a monopoly? Legally you may be right, but practically -- I have to question whether you work with or on computers in your job. I have never, ever seen any documents emailed back and forth that weren't one of: Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, Powerpoints, or PDFs, and I deal with a lot of different firms as a consulting engineer. Alternatives are simply not in use at the corporate level on any wide scale (or even a narrow one) that I've seen.
    "If you doubt that an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually produce the combined works of Shakespeare, consider: it only took 30 billion monkeys and no typewriters." - Unknown

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    • #32
      Other programs can open those formats. There's really nothing keeping Office popular other than the fact that everything else sucks and Office is pretty good.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Agathon
        Every day it seems there is some new security exploit for Windows and Redmond does virtually nothing, seeming content to sustain its bloated corpse on users' misery.
        This is just silly, though -- your claim they do absolutely nothing. SP2 was absolutely nothing? It stalled all Windows development for a year to develop, it was a more cohesive update than OS X 10.3 was, and was given away for free. Further, they've been patching vulnerabilities as they're discovered.

        Apple is the one who is doing "virtually nothing" -- they refuse to release individual security updates (instead waiting for a giant package so you can't install just one of them), they refuse to categorize threat levels (though third-party analysts have labeled the 17 security vulnerabilities found last month as "highly critical").

        There are tons of vulnerabilities with every software platform, period. It's a fact of life with software, and especially such complex software as modern operating systems.

        The difference is, no one bothers to exploit something with 2% of the marketshare (half of that being educational computers). Why would they?

        But as I said, they are being attacked from multiple sides by Google, OSS, etc.
        They've always been under attack from multiple sides. They've competed directly with Apple, IBM, all the big names...they keep winning the consumer desktop OS market.

        They are under attack, but they have enough brilliant people working for them and enough financial clout to do just about anything they want to to right the ship. Microsoft's going to be around for a long, long time, even if it's not in the businesses they started in.

        This whole talk about the browser business is kinda moot. Internet Explorer doesn't really matter to MS anymore -- its purpose was to combat Netscape's threat of the browser becomg a "platform", ultimately replacing Windows. Now that it's not a thread, MS doesn't care so much. They make no money on the browser, remember...
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • #34
          Originally posted by optimus2861
          And you say Office isn't a monopoly? Legally you may be right, but practically -- I have to question whether you work with or on computers in your job. I have never, ever seen any documents emailed back and forth that weren't one of: Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, Powerpoints, or PDFs, and I deal with a lot of different firms as a consulting engineer. Alternatives are simply not in use at the corporate level on any wide scale (or even a narrow one) that I've seen.
          We don't use MS Office at work, and we have no issues. We use the Lotus Office suite.

          Customers send us .DOC files and .XLS files and .PPT files and we have no issues with them.

          The official correspondance method with external people is PDF.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment

          • #35
            And saying that Longhorn is like a service pack to Windows XP with prettier graphics is funny on several levels. First of all, Longhorn is a substantial update -- it replaces Win32 with WinFX (and win32 has been around since Win95...), it adds the Indigo services mechanism, it adds the Avalon presentation engine, it uses NT kernel 6.0 instead of 5.1 (Win2K was 5.0), which is a substantial update in performance and stability, etc.

            The reason you may think it's only about a Service Pack is because MS' free Service Packs do offer a lot of features for free, so they have high-standards.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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            • #36
              did we mention that the service packs were free, and not $119?
              B♭3

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              • #37
                Btw, how are the use of PDF files proof of an Office monopoly? Was Adobe recently acquired by MS and no one bothered to tell me?
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                • #38
                  Quiet, Imran, he was on a roll. It's like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...
                  B♭3

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                  • #39

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                    • #40
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                        Btw, how are the use of PDF files proof of an Office monopoly? Was Adobe recently acquired by MS and no one bothered to tell me?
                        Since I brought it up...

                        I only mentioned PDF because it's effectively the only non-MS-exclusive document file format I ever send/receive (aside from AutoCAD stuff, which has nothing to do with MS, other than that AutoCAD used to develop cross-platform but went Windows-only some years ago). Even then, the PDF is usually just a Word/Excel document converted to PDF because either the receiver doesn't have Word/Excel (rare) or you want to send the document read-only.

                        Might be an IBM ego thing that keeps them off MS Office .
                        "If you doubt that an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually produce the combined works of Shakespeare, consider: it only took 30 billion monkeys and no typewriters." - Unknown

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                        • #42
                          HAVE A DAY.
                          <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
                          "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
                          For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

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                          • #43
                            This is just silly, though -- your claim they do absolutely nothing. SP2 was absolutely nothing? It stalled all Windows development for a year to develop, it was a more cohesive update than OS X 10.3 was, and was given away for free. Further, they've been patching vulnerabilities as they're discovered.


                            It managed to stall 80,000 NHS computers too IIRC.

                            And it has done **** all to stop the rot. Presumably the well-known fact that there are no OS X viruses and no known spyware (apart from things like keystroke loggers which can't be automatically installed) would make a tempting target for hackers wanting to make a name for themselves.

                            Windows is insecure because it's ****, and because the company who markets it had no real incentive to make it work properly, since people were effectively locked in. Now they are worried, but its too late.

                            And Apple gives away security updates for free, even for older systems.

                            And I agree, PDFs are indispensable, and supported natively in OS X I might add.
                            Only feebs vote.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Agathon
                              Microsoft are the ones that should be worried, they're being attacked from multiple sides. I don't think they'll be able to dethrone Google for a start.
                              And dethroning goolge has exactly what to do with MS's core business? Do you honestly believe anyone is going to break MS's OS monopoly or the MS Office monopoly in the near future? MS makes money hand over first where as Apple's core market (The Mac) just keeps getting smaller and smaller.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Agathon
                                Apple is OK for the foreseeable future.

                                Microsoft are the ones that should be worried, they're being attacked from multiple sides. I don't think they'll be able to dethrone Google for a start.

                                More bad news for them is that even my mother uses Firefox now (and was pleasantly surprised that internet browsing didn't have to be ****). It's hard to say just yet, but if Firefox becomes viral, that is the end of MS browser domination, no matter what they do – they're too far behind now.
                                again I don't understand.

                                Browsers are free. How does it matter which browser people use?

                                How can microsoft make a profit on something that is free?

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