Breaking News: Bush Personally Authorized Torture

[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
You are making poor assumptions. Just because someone doesn't like Bush you think they are partisan. Wrong. This man has taken everything good conservative leaders stood for and has perverted it to extremes and disgraced the good ideals put forth by Reagan.

I supported Reagan, I waited 17 hours in line to see him at his funeral when he died this summer. That was a REAL conservative leader. I am also a big fan John McCain. Both of them are Republicans.

...


Partisan.

You have no clue.

No. It's not just because you don't like Bush. It's the shrill nature of the criticism. I don't like Bush, but I do not feel the need to crow about it at every opportunity and twist every issue to make me look good for not liking him. You seem to need to do so.

You supported, and continue to support Reagan, but you seem willing to overlook the egregious deeds done under his watch in places like Nicaragua and with such unsavory characters as drug dealers and the Ayatollahs.

You're seeming to be very selective, Ted.

Partisan? Look in the mirror.

[Ted Striker]

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[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

Why is it disgusting, Ted?

You think torture, real nasty varieties of it, didn't happen in various American clients with not only American tacit approval, but actual training for the gaolers in American 'colleges'? Where have you been these last thirty years?

BTW, you flatter yourself. The fact that I show up in some threads you do is perhaps because some of the same things interest us. Perhaps we end up discussing things because you say the damnedest things, and I find pulling the wings off flies to be amusing from time to time.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why is it disgusting, Ted?

You think torture, real nasty varieties of it, didn't happen in various American clients with not only American tacit approval, but actual training for the gaolers in American 'colleges'? Where have you been these last thirty years?

No sh1t Sherlock.

I was just going to mention in this thread about how we have been doing it for the last 40 years and especially in Central America. We weren't only training the foreign governments to do it, we had our own guys in the same room at the time.

Big difference between that and when the most powerful man in the world signs an Executive Order, and/or tries to decide what is or is not "acceptable" forms of torture, and does it by trying to see who can stretch the limits the most.

BTW, you flatter yourself. The fact that I show up in some threads you do is perhaps because some of the same things interest us. Perhaps we end up discussing things because you say the damnedest things, and I find pulling the wings off flies to be amusing from time to time.

Yeah, right, you follow me around and self pwn yourself and then resort to name calling and personal attacks. If you really could win an argument by actually making one and backing it up, you wouldn't get so desparate. It was cute for a while but now you're starting to waste my time.

Where are those police torture links anyway?

notyoueither:

Spends 1/10 of the thread talking about 1/10 of the topic
Spends 9/10 of the thread talking about Ted Striker



Pimpin' ain't easy except when you got hoes like notyoueither around.

[Ted Striker]

And by the way I always flatter myself.

[notyoueither]

yadda, yadda, yadda.

Keep your impure thoughts to yourself, Ted. I'm not interested.

Originally posted by Ted Striker
No sh1t Sherlock.

I was just going to mention in this thread about how we have been doing it for the last 40 years and especially in Central America. We weren't only training the foreign governments to do it, we had our own guys in the same room at the time.

Big difference between that and when the most powerful man in the world signs an Executive Order, and/or tries to decide what is or is not "acceptable" forms of torture, and does it by trying to see who can stretch the limits the most.

And I'm still waiting to see where the authorisation to beat, and rape, and murder is.

Sorry, Ted, sleep deprivation don't cut it for a scandle.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
And by the way I always flatter myself.

Nobody ever would have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it.

[Pekka]

Well the way I see it, sleep deprivation is not torture, but it becomes torture if it's kept going too long. If you are waken up in the middle of the night to be interrogated, when you were just interrogated the whole day before, I don't see that as torture. Do this for a long time, it might become that. Added stress bonus would be the dogs, but I don't see that as torture. These are all, of course, to break the individual mentally and psychologically.

Sensor deprivation, not sure. Using hoods I don't think is torture of any form, just stress bonus. But sure if you're up there few years, subjected to tehse all the time.. then I'm not sure but the hoods alone shouldn't be a concern. Maybe when this whole thing is wrapped together, it dances in the lines of it. But not necessarily torture than just hard interrogation.

What I DO consider torture is stress positions. That doesn't mean you're in uncomfrotable 40 dollar chair. It means you are put into positions and can't move, that are known to be painful. Static pain etc.. That has been regarded as torture before, and that's what they do to you in many weird places when they torture you. That I can't see as anything else While I think these others might give a full spectrum, where the absolute extreme can be a little shady, but other than that not necessarily, stress positions I see the spectrum as the extreme light version as not torture, but everything more than that is torture, and I don't see why I need to trust the use of the light side than the other.

[ixnay]

Surprised nobody's posted about this section yet:

Another e-mail, dated December 2003, describes an incident in which Defense Department interrogators at Guantánamo Bay impersonated FBI agents while using "torture techniques" against a detainee. The e-mail concludes "If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, DOD interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done [sic] the ‘FBI’ interrogators. The FBI will [sic] left holding the bag before the public."

Am I the only one somewhat troubled by the DoD planning to pin everything on another government agency?

[child of Thor]

Sleep deprivation isnt done just for a few nights you know?
People can go insane permantly from long exposures.
For those who dont think its torture, get whomever you share you life with to not let you sleep properly for.....say 5-6 days, see if you agree its not torture after that
How long have those suspects been in Guantanamo?

But if any of this is true(and these measures are kind of 'normal' practise in the context of past wars), then fair enough i say. Just dont get so pissed when the bad guys chop of your guys heads on tv - alls fair in love and war.
Its one of the reasons that kept the whole IRA thing going in such a nasty way for so long here in the UK. Torture and worse was done on both sides and it kind of crystalised the hatred, making even more extreme forms of inhuman activity possible.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
There was an anecdote about how that treatment was given to IRA guys.

After a week those guys were delirious to the point that one guy couldn't even remember his name.

But hey, they were IRA scum and deserved it right???

(no offense British people)

That whole point about being able to "sell" torture to the American people, Shi's post is EXACTLY the thing I am talking about.

Actually Ted, I seem to recall a few complaints from your side of the pond about the abuses of human rights and the torture meted out to the 'freedom loving' I.R.A. terrorists.

Probably to do with those Irish American voters, and rather less to do with a concern for human rights.


However, such activities are deemed torture over here now, and are not permitted.

See if you can find a copy of this:

Taylor, P. (1980) Beating the Terrorists : Interrogations in Omagh, Gough and Castelreagh. Harmondsworth : Penguin

It will seem terribly familiar....

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
There was an anecdote about how that treatment was given to IRA guys.

After a week those guys were delirious to the point that one guy couldn't even remember his name.

But hey, they were IRA scum and deserved it right???

(no offense British people)

That whole point about being able to "sell" torture to the American people, Shi's post is EXACTLY the thing I am talking about.

Yes, it was disgraceful. Shameful part of our history. And even more shameful that we didn't react to it more, although I was probably a bit too young to really be aware of it.

[MikeH]

Not to say we aren't doing some ****ty stuff now, like locking people up without charge - something the government's just had a court ruling against it saying they are acting illegally. EU human rights help us again. Good work courts!