Is Islam a religion of peace , or is it inherently violent ?

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
insanely better off... aside from a tax, Christians and Jews were not at all ill-treated by their Muslim rulers. whereas Christian nations since Constantine's Rome have been rife with expulsions and progroms of Jews, Islamic nations never had any history of such things until the 20th century.

I can only reiterate what mb said: What a crap. Go and read about the "insanely tolerant" muslim regime in Spain and Northern Africa under the Almohads after the fall of Almoravid dynasty. When jews start to emigrate to medieval Spanish Christian kingdoms, you know the place they've been has must have been VERY bad. And there's many other examples too. As in Christianity, there's always been more and less tolerant regions, more and less tolerant periods...
The thing that made situation in muslim countries often better than in Christian countries was that islam has a kind of standardized institution granting certain religious tolerance towards Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians : The dimma-system. Christianity lacked such a pattern which made Christian nations even less calculable, one day everything could be fine, the next day you'd have a pogrome. In islam, the same happened in those regions, where they dimma-system didn't really fit. While more tolerant rulers would extend the certain protection of the dimma over Hindus too, this could easily be changed the next day by pointing to them as "polytheists".
However, the dimma, I believe, maybe once was an advantage, but today this concept is useless, it's pribciples of tolerance are in no way comparable to our concepts of religious tolerance and freedom. Best example is the mullah regime in Iran, they exercise the dimma according to tradition...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by molly bloom


No, but having a warrior caste might.

The warrior caste is older than hinduism, it harkens back to Indo-European culture and was brought to India by the Aryans if it didn't already exist there. What is different about Hinduism is the rigidty of the caste system, which seems indicate that the original Aryan conquerors were vastly outnumbered by their subjects and were determined to preserve their culture. The extent to which they did so is truly amazing. Nonetheless much of Hinduism seems to come from the indiginous culture of India as well as recursive influences from Buddism.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
why is it that apolyton is so anti-islam. it's really sickening.

Why is Islam so blatantly anti-apolyton? I think it's much more severe than its analogue.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ramo

It's a pretty damn ignorant thing to say that Muslims can't get along with people of other religions or lack thereof at all.

Well look around the world and see how well Muslims in general are getting along with their neighbors. Not very well. Of course they aren't getting along with each other either, whether internally or externally.

[Al B. Sure!]

shouldn't half of yall be banned by now for hate postings? i thought apolyton doesn't tolerate hate postings against religious groups.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
insanely better off... aside from a tax, Christians and Jews were not at all ill-treated by their Muslim rulers.

A tax, wearing of special dress, sometimes wearing big wooden crosses, sometimes puting images of devils on their doors, sometimes being slaughtered, sometimes being taken away churches, sometimes forbidden to build new ones or repair old ones, sometimes given a choice convert or die etc

whereas Christian nations since Constantine's Rome have been rife with expulsions and progroms of Jews,

Somehow, still majority of Jews lived in Christian states.
Also, Christian intolerance didn't start with Constantine.
Somewhere around Theodosius the Great would be more proper, and even then it was rather a work of fanatical monks.

Islamic nations never had any history of such things until the 20th century.

Really?
Massacre of Banu Qurayza by Muhammad - entire Jewish tribe killed (but women and children, who were just enslaved)
Slaughter of Antioch under mamluk sultan Baybars and many other slaughters during Muslim conquests
Slaughters of Armenians at the end of XIX century...

Christians were the civilized world's intolerant, violent bastards until the Enlightenment

In the first four centuries of their history too?

since Christianity became a state religion, its followers commited many crimes.
But as You've noticed, Christianity has a peacefull founder. Islam does not.
In its times, Islam could be considered a step forward in many ways, though we should not go too far in praises;
dhimma system
1) Was a necessarity in its times. Muslims would not be able to conquer a piece of Byzantium if its population would be hostile towards the conquest.
For a very long time, Islam was the attacking side, and it was conquering Christian lands, not the other way round.
2) Islam has an easier task accepting Christianity than vice versa. Simple because Christianity is older, Islam grew beside it, because Muhammad's followers had to flee to a Christian land himself once
3) Today, what was progressive in VII/VIII century,
is a mock of religious freedom.
4) It was not always respected, it was only for some religious groups, and there's a question of the population during the conquest.

[Odin]

Both Christianity and Islam are inherently peaceful, but if you give them to a warmongering culture...

[Ramo]

Well look around the world and see how well Muslims in general are getting along with their neighbors. Not very well. Of course they aren't getting along with each other either, whether internally or externally.

It's one thing to say that Muslims often don't get along all that well with those of other religions/sects; it's another thing completely to say that they never get along.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
shouldn't half of yall be banned by now for hate postings? i thought apolyton doesn't tolerate hate postings against religious groups.

A hate post would be "Damn those stupid ******* Muslims. They're all a bunch of ******* terrorists."

[Dis]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
shouldn't half of yall be banned by now for hate postings? i thought apolyton doesn't tolerate hate postings against religious groups.

stop your trolling. leave it to us masters at it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But as You've noticed, Christianity has a peacefull founder. Islam does not.

If Jesus actually existed and wasn't a creation by other 'founders'. And the tactics to gain power while the Roman Empire is at its might and in the middle of a variety of different Arabic tribes.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sikander


The warrior caste is older than hinduism, it harkens back to Indo-European culture and was brought to India by the Aryans if it didn't already exist there.

Err, I didn't think I was saying it wasn't.....

I thought that what aneeshm was saying was that firstly Hinduism was more 'peaceful' than Islam, then secondly that the kshatriya were there in response to either Islam or Alexander, neither of which frankly seems at all likely, if they already exist in the Rig Veda.


shouldn't half of yall be banned by now for hate postings? i thought apolyton doesn't tolerate hate postings against religious groups.

Albert Speer


I'll accept a week's banning if you change your monicker to Judas Maccabeus, and stop posting uncritical inaccurate unhistorical tripe.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But as You've noticed, Christianity has a peacefull founder. Islam does not.

If Jesus actually existed and wasn't a creation by other 'founders'.

Sure. Have any person You haven't met in person really existed?
Do other beings exist at all, or are they all your imagination?

And the tactics to gain power while the Roman Empire is at its might and in the middle of a variety of different Arabic tribes.

You mean it varies?
Oh, Christianity was spreading in Arabia before Muhammad without creating a theocratic state

[Arrian]

Damn. Great post by Impaler.

-Arrian

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Err, I didn't think I was saying it wasn't.....

I thought that what aneeshm was saying was that firstly Hinduism was more 'peaceful' than Islam, then secondly that the kshatriya were there in response to either Islam or Alexander, neither of which frankly seems at all likely, if they already exist in the Rig Veda.


shouldn't half of yall be banned by now for hate postings? i thought apolyton doesn't tolerate hate postings against religious groups.

Albert Speer


I'll accept a week's banning if you change your monicker to Judas Maccabeus, and stop posting uncritical inaccurate unhistorical tripe.

What the hell do the Maccabees have to do with any of this?