Leading Atheist Philosopher Concludes God's Real

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Berzerker

...They did alot of talking to and about God and their belief in god(s) is why most of the world believes in god(s) now. So if you want proof that God exists, read what those earlier peoples wrote about God. That is the illogic of atheism, it discounts god without a serious investigation and does so by picking apart the easily refutable beliefs of religious nuts or the power hungry employing religion.

Which is more likely:

(a) That the testimony is true.

or

(b) That the accounts were made up by people for various reasons, or the people who "saw" these things were suffering from a mental illness.

The sheer amount of evidence makes the second more likely. Compare:

(c) Bush orchestrated 9/11.

and:

(d) A small group of Islamist terrorists did it on their own.

To believe (c) you have to revise massive numbers of beliefs, to believe (d) you don't.

It is always rational to choose what would be the "lesser miracle:.

[Lul Thyme]

Not if you allow yourself to retroactively choose the myths that fit your theory...
Choose a theory , find a myth that says the same thing (not hard with so many to choose from) et voila, God in the Ancients
That does reduce somewhat prediction power, and you have to change your theory completly every year but at least, the Ancients (or some of them) were right!!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Sum over histories

ARGH!

Kill!!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Look at my thread on Saturn and Pluto.

Which offers what unambiguous proof of 'god' ?

None, so far as anyone with a sense of humour can tell.

[Whaleboy]

Space-time isn't in another space-time

Is too!

You measure the curvature by measuring the angles and side lengths of triangles

Which requires lengths in the first place. Do you understand the meaning of the word "infinite" or "infinitesimal"?

You're babbling incoherently.

Am not!

Look at my thread on Saturn and Pluto.

That is the illogic of atheism, it discounts god without a serious investigation and does so by picking apart the easily refutable beliefs of religious nuts or the power hungry employing religion.

What? Atheism is not simply non-Christianity or non-monotheism, it is the view that "the" doesn't exist, whether it be monotheism or polytheism. That's why of course you'll find trancendentral or existentialist atheists, and you provide no evidence to the contrary, rather than your own bitter little view of things. I somehow doubt that you have solved for us a millenia-old philosophical question .

They did alot of talking to and about God and their belief in god(s) is why most of the world believes in god(s) now.

Most of the world believes in God now because of the British and Spanish empires. I'm thinking your figures are just numbers plucked out of the air though. For the vast majority of human existence, the religion as it were (so is thought) is based more around ones own ancestors and does not hold a "the".

(a) That the testimony is true.

Good point! Of course not, simply because they are dead or numerous does not validate their position.

ARGH!

Kill!!

[Ramo]

You are babbling more incoherently than he is.

[Whaleboy]

Silence heathen

[Urban Ranger]

I think Flew forgot something basic.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew (search) has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

That is, what created this super-intelligence?

[Jon Miller]

well, there is always the theory that we did

Jon Miller
(not a follower of that theory, but it seems to be popular in humanistic deist circles)

[Berzerker]

But isn't the onus of proof on those who wish to prove something that is not empircally obvious? I may believe there is a higher being, but I don't think it can be proven in any way. Simply because people in the past believed it isn't proof to me.

But atheists ignore the proof and point to matters of faith or butchered interpretations of religious scripture to dismiss God. I was in that boat myself and then decided to do some research on my own.

UR

Did you count the Chinese, the Hindus, whole mess of people who lived and died in South America and Africa, etc?

So how did you come up with the 90% figure?

A conservative estimate based on how pervasive religion is.

Besides, the same argument can be applied to interesting ideas such as Spontaneous Generation and Phlogistons.

90+% believe in those?

Even if it is shown that ancient peoples had knowledge beyond their abilities it did not indicate there were a god.

It does when those same people claim gods gave them the knowledge.

The contradictions of various myths and legends effectively rule out anything "real" behind them. For example, the Greeks had it that Prometheus gave fire to man, but the Chinese had it that it was a man who discovered fire.

These were different cultures with different culture bearers, e.g., no Achilles in China. When creation stories from all over the world agree on certain aspects, and those certain aspects are compatable with science, then that raises a question: how did they know?

Aggie

Which is more likely:

(a) That the testimony is true.

or

(b) That the accounts were made up by people for various reasons, or the people who "saw" these things were suffering from a mental illness.

The sheer amount of evidence makes the second more likely. Compare:

(c) Bush orchestrated 9/11.

and:

(d) A small group of Islamist terrorists did it on their own.

To believe (c) you have to revise massive numbers of beliefs, to believe (d) you don't.

It is always rational to choose what would be the "lesser miracle:

There's a third option, some myths are based on or describe actual events but often told using the language of metaphor.

Whaleboy

What? Atheism is not simply non-Christianity or non-monotheism, it is the view that "the" doesn't exist, whether it be monotheism or polytheism. That's why of course you'll find trancendentral or existentialist atheists, and you provide no evidence to the contrary, rather than your own bitter little view of things. I somehow doubt that you have solved for us a millenia-old philosophical question .

Jesus H Christ, so I didn't add an (s) to "god" and you have to go on a rant? Most people here can figure out "god" can mean any and all gods when debating atheism vs religion.

[Giancarlo]

You can't prove god. So what proof do atheists ignore when none really exists?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Berzerker
But atheists ignore the proof and point to matters of faith or butchered interpretations of religious scripture to dismiss God. I was in that boat myself and then decided to do some research on my own.

Just in case you don't know, some of them atheists were religionists, some were even fundamentalists. They had been there before, and they found nothing.

Originally posted by Berzerker
A conservative estimate based on how pervasive religion is.

Where did this estimate come from?

Originally posted by Berzerker
90+% believe in those?

Sure, if you select the geographical region and time period properly.

Originally posted by Berzerker
It does when those same people claim gods gave them the knowledge.

Maybe, but we haven't got to square one yet.

Originally posted by Berzerker
These were different cultures with different culture bearers, e.g., no Achilles in China.

Achilles was not a god.

Originally posted by Berzerker
When creation stories from all over the world agree on certain aspects, and those certain aspects are compatable with science, then that raises a question: how did they know?

The devil is in the details. If you ignore the painful details, sure, a lot of things tend to look alike, particularly when you keep moving up abstraction levels.

[Whaleboy]

But atheists ignore the proof and point to matters of faith or butchered interpretations of religious scripture to dismiss God. I was in that boat myself and then decided to do some research on my own.

Let me guess, you picked up some Sumarian scrolls and noticed the plane of Pluto's orbit and the rings of Saturn are aligned (note of course the variation cycle of the latter)? There is no proof of God that I have seen that cannot be easily refuted and discredited, perhaps you could show me the error of my ways and demonstrate otherwise, instead of spuriously claiming some atheistic conspiracy or whatever?

A conservative estimate based on how pervasive religion is.

You need to examine why.

Jesus H Christ, so I didn't add an (s) to "god" and you have to go on a rant? Most people here can figure out "god" can mean any and all gods when debating atheism vs religion.

Wait a minute, I said atheism denies both mono and polytheism, which still leaves open both my original point and my question.

[Arrian]

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy
There are no simple explanations for anything in this complicated universe.

You mean like "God made it"?

IW!

-Arrian

[Whaleboy]

Now now, sometimes when people have invisible friends, the kindest thing to do is just to play along