Inventing a Crisis

[chequita guevara]

I think it has more to do with not trusting you guys. Conservatives lie, unless its useful to tell the truth.

[SpencerH]

SSI has nothing to do with forced savings, it is just another badly thought out wealth distribution plan envisaged and supported by socialists.

[chequita guevara]

And it works. It's the most successful anti-poverty program ever.

[SpencerH]

Thats not saying much.

[DanS]

As stated, it started out as wealth redistribution toward the poor. Now it's redistributing wealth toward the rich! The current system should be anathema to all lefties.

It's the most successful anti-poverty program ever.

It's taking from the almost poor and giving to the old poor and old not-so-poor. Where's the justice in that?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Japher
GePap: It's hard to believe a reporter when everyone else is saying there is no money in some secret account meant for SS retirement. If there were, than why all the recent tax defered retirement savings accounts? Why do they keep pushing back the retirement dates? That ain't just the big cheese being nice or stingy. They know there is no money.

Krugman is an Economics Professor at princeton.

And Krugman answers your question- the people implementing these systems hate SS (except for the increased age-that is simply common sense)

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH
SSI has nothing to do with forced savings, it is just another badly thought out wealth distribution plan envisaged and supported by socialists.

Finally a right winger who comes out clean on his hate of the system

to the idea itself.

[Japher]

It's still a case of "he said" "she said"

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
As stated, it started out as wealth redistribution toward the poor. Now it's redistributing wealth toward the rich! The current system should be anathema to all lefties.

What part of "we don't trust you to fix it" don't you understand?

[GePap]

No its not.

Its an issue of the numbers- and thus open to intelligent debate.

[Japher]

just like everything else though, GePap

You'll come up with reputable economist who say everything is alright

and

I'll come up with reputable economist who say it's the end of the world

all income tax should be elective anyway, everything else should be taxed based on use

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap


Finally a right winger who comes out clean on his hate of the system

to the idea itself.

Except I'm not a right-winger. I used to play left wing in my youth though.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by DanS
As stated, it started out as wealth redistribution toward the poor. Now it's redistributing wealth toward the rich! The current system should be anathema to all lefties.

If I can never recover the money I pay into SSI then the extra money I paid in must be going to someone else who didnt pay in enough. To me, thats wealth distribution from the rich(er) the poor(er). One can play with the numbers all day, but thats the long and short of it. The more money one earns the less the chance of return and the greater the subsidy.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

On average if you put money into equities in 1929, your rate of returns would have been lower than those of bonds for the decades of the 30's, 40's and 50's. The notion that the market must be ever upwards is a new one, not a long time truth.

yeah, but since i would contribute every year, in the long run, it balances out at a couple of percentage points a year.

You also utterly ignore the issue of possible out of pocket costs you do not envision (like lets say you get divorced and your wife takes half and you have to pay child support).

thats right and thats aight. you also ignore than govt SS can get raided, can no longer be possible so you spend your entire lives paying and when it comes time to retire you wont have it. id rather make right choices and have it be my fault that it disspapears than have the govt do something thats out of my control.

There is a reason SS came into being-because people do NOT actually take all their money and squirrel it way in investments for their old age-most American stock ownership comes from people's IRA and other retirement plans not run individually, and our national savings rate is miserable.

not my problem.

And if the market crashes just before your retirement, you might have to dealy retiring for another decade to recoup your losses.

a small chance that im willing to take and so should everyone else.

That would only get him half a million (again, ignoring inflation), again, assuming that he has the discipline to do that for 30 years, and assuming that there aren't any complications.

half a million plus my property that i can sell in the city for a few million (real estate always goes up) and buy a cheap house in the country, sure you get taxed on what you dont use, but its another coupla hundred thousands added to that, plus 401K.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The point of SS is to make sure every worker gets something once they are of retirement age. It's than simple. People are free to save on their own or use other government sponsored programs.

well i want my own money. i worked for it, so i deserve it. isnt this america? will america keep its promise to me?