Inventing a Crisis

[GePap]

OK.

So when you retire, you will have your 401(k) benefits and the SS checks. Good for you, and anyone else with a 401(k)

The point of SS is to make sure every worker gets something once they are of retirement age. It's than simple. People are free to save on their own or use other government sponsored programs.

[Japher]

Yeah, it is great. However, I doubt I will ever see a drop of the SS money. So, why am I paying it? Because they spent all the money and are using the money I am paying to pay those who are retired now... What is going to happen when the Baby boomers retire?

The thing of it is that there are plenty of tax deferment plans (government sponsered) apart from SS that work better because they are self-directed or comanaged.

The government f'd up, and now we are paying for it. I don't want this to happen agains, and I don't trust the governement enough not to f'up again.

[Shogun Gunner]

Japher, I demand that you return to your previous avatar. Don't wait, don't even think about, JUST DO IT

[GePap]

Did you read the OP?

The point of the whole thread was that the system as it was designed, speically after the tax increases in the early 80's created a system that was viable well beyond your death-and Krugman's point was that even once the surplus was gone, a relatively small amount of general fund money would allow the system to keep going.

What Oerdin brought up was that the problem today is not how the system was created, but the fact that the government, like many corporations have done, dipped into the retirement fund to finance various projects, including Bush's tax cuts. If the system is in danger, its because the Congresses since the surplus began to rise and the Presidents of this time allowed the Trust fund to be used for other things.

Again, the point of the OP is that the myth that the SS system is broken is that, a myth- fault a profligate gov. for raiding the fund. Privatization, which will add vast new costs and worsen the problem of government spending, won't help.

Some people just hate the very notion of Social Security.

[GePap]

Yeah, it is great. However, I doubt I will ever see a drop of the SS money. So, why am I paying it? Because they spent all the money and are using the money I am paying to pay those who are retired now... What is going to happen when the Baby boomers retire?

No you are not paying for todays retirees- given we have built up a large surplus, people a decade ago probably paid for todays retiree's.

[pchang]

Because in its present incarnation it is a Ponzi scheme.

[chequita guevara]

No one cares.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
You can put up to $13k per year into your 401k and your employer can match up to 25% of that.

It depends on the employer. I've heard of 1 to 1 matching schemes.

[Japher]

GePap: It's hard to believe a reporter when everyone else is saying there is no money in some secret account meant for SS retirement. If there were, than why all the recent tax defered retirement savings accounts? Why do they keep pushing back the retirement dates? That ain't just the big cheese being nice or stingy. They know there is no money.

pchang

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
I doubt I will ever see a drop of the SS money. So, why am I paying it? Because they spent all the money and are using the money

They spent it on a tax cut for the wealthy.

[Japher]

It depends on the employer. I've heard of 1 to 1 matching schemes

Actually it doesn't, as far as pretax dollars are concerned.

[DanS]

Social Security is doing what it was designed to do, but it wasn't designed very well for our current and future situations. This fact doesn't have anything to do with how Social Security was raided.

[DanS]

No, it's a foot in the door to total privitisation. Once he can get us to accept a little bit, they can get us to accept some more, and then some more, and finally they can give the whole wad to the investment bankers who will then loot it ala the Savings and Loan, Insuance, and Mutual fund crises.

The mutual fund crises? Insurance crises? When were these?

[chequita guevara]

Okay, fine, I can't defend that.

[DanS]

This is a really ironic discussion. The left is defending the status quo, meaning that regressive labor taxation will have to be increased over the coming years. The right is proposing a system that will alleviate the burden on the less well-to-do while giving them "a piece of the rock." For the transition period, Bush is partially proposing borrowing money, which will fall against the next generation's rich people -- i.e., the richer half of the country who pay all of the income taxes.

The left should be all for this plan, like Moynihan was.