Self defense of the home(UK)

[David Floyd]

They are overly concerned with innocent people dying. My point is, if someone breaks into your house and acts like a burglar, they aren't innocent by definition, and in the case of drunk idiots doing it, the only suggestion I can offer is don't drink more than you can handle.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by David Floyd
My overriding point was that Tony Martin was not a violent criminal, nor was he actively breaking any laws OTHER than having a shotgun, which was ultimately only used for self defense.

Oh come on, either you're a criminal or you're not (And don't bring up archaic out-of-date dumb laws in response, this was a law passed in 1998). You can make your points without misleadingly characterising Tony Martin as a law-abiding citizen.

[Starchild]

People overly concerned about knive wielding psychotic ninja masters breaking into their house should probably be sent to a statistics and probability class.

Lords, you're more likely to kill your entire family yourself driving them to the corner store than a burgler is.*


*At least in the UK you are. Between Floyd's morals and Speer's accounts, my general impression of America is a vast Mogadishu type urban sprawl. Except for the parts of NY/NJ I lived in, where I know it's a vast mogadishu-type urban sprawl.

[Patroklos]

The arguements above are primarily for the situation where you have no idea who the person is and there is no way of discovering motive short of asking the person in a way you ernestly believe will expose you to danger. "excuse me, did you just chamber a round or are you stealing my staples?" In those cases only would I actually shoot someone.

If he is obviously a burglar then no he won't be shot, and I don't think anyone here has advocated that besides bleeding hearts purposefully reading into things.

I have the right of common sence to unload a world of hurt on people violaiting my home, but the same common sence keeps me from blowing a way tricker treaters for trespassing

[Patroklos]

If it was Mogadishu we would at least have a 200/1 burglars to homeowners killed ratio. At least for Americans.

[Gibsie]

I saw this elsewhere, thought it summed up the thread very well, so I adapted it:

Liberals, Conservatives, and David Floyd

How do you tell the difference between Liberals, Conservatives, and which does David Floyd count as? Pose the following question:

You're asleep with your wife and two small children in a near room when suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife bursts into your room, starts screaming obscenities, locks eyes with you, raises the knife, and charges.

You happen to have access to a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?

Liberal Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we get away?
What does my wife think? What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have an appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some
friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

Conservative Answer:

BANG!

David Floyd's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click...
(sounds of reloading).

Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?"

Son (Poking his head round the door): "Mom's right Dad, I saw it, too."

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click.

Daughter: "Nice group, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips?"

[Patroklos]

That can be shorted.

Liberal: Dead, Wife Dead, Family Dead, knife weilding lunitic alive.

Conservative: Alive, Wife Alive, Family Alive, knife weilding lunitic dead.

David Floyd: Alive, Wife Alive, Family Alive, knife weilding lunitic dead.

[Whoha]

Har har har. Anyone would take the shot in that situation, people are far more conservative in their personal affairs and dealing with their family then they otherwise are.

[Whoha]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/12/07/do0702.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/12/07/ixopinion.html

Some interesting stuff in here about burgularies in GB, about 50% and rising of them are done while a family is at home, compared with around 10% here in the US.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I don't know about that. I believe that the knife is the superior weapon. Both require using two hands, while the knife-wielder has a hand free to ward off your blow. You may break his arm, but then while you're trying to raise the bat agian he has a clean strike at your chest, abdomen or neck.

You can feint a strike, then when he tries to block with his free arm, go for his knife arm, head, etc.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Why take chances? If the intruder happens to be a skilled knife fighter, he's still gonna win. Just shoot him and be done with it, then his knife fighting skills not only won't be a problem for you, but they won't be a problem for anyone, ever.

You missed the point again.

The point is not the actual use of a weapon, but to keep the intruder out by the threat of such use. You are on the defense, you don't need to actually use a weapon. All you need to do is to keep him at bay at a choke point. A burglar is most likely to flee when confronted in such a fashion. He has easier targets to pick.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Whoha
but then burgulars will just bring boards with nails in them, forcing the construction of even bigger boards, with even bigger nails, until, one day, we build a board with a nail in it so big that it will destroy us all!

You don't think people walking around with big boards with nails in the middle of the night are going to be stopped by the police?

[MRT144]

i think i should just start terrorizing texans by setting their houses on fire and then shooting them as they exit, and then robbing them. theyll never see it coming.

[Sava]

I got WOLF in my .40 Glock 27...180 grain FMJ...

My hand built Fulton Arm's M14 isn't loaded, but I got one mag on the dresser.

I got my rifle parts from the Fulton Arm's web site. It was easy enough to assemble because I learned how to shoot at an early age. I ordered everything off the internet with my credit card, rofl... no FFL license required. well, FFL license was needed for the receiver though.

[Sava]

but I don't yet have a preban mag, I got a ****ty 5 round.