Discourse and Discussion - Cap/Com

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
No it's not. Forcing people not to is contrary to L-F.

Polluting is harming others without their consent. Harming others without their consent - be it theft, murder, or pollution - is by definition illegal under L-F. We've been over this.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Because making them creates more polution.

So can services.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Polluting is harming others without their consent. Harming others without their consent - be it theft, murder, or pollution - is by definition illegal under L-F. We've been over this.

I know we have, but L-F simply means hands off.

So can services.

Well we were talking about how pollution control costs 2% of GDP when most of that cost is in manufacturing. Why do you think services create more pollution and why don't they have pollution control costs?

[Kidlicious]

Vel,

I think you have some diminished mental capacity. I don't know why you carry on like this. You are very offensive, and you don't get it when people try to talk to you about it.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I know we have, but L-F simply means hands off.

It means no government regulation of the market. Laws against murder, fraud, theft, etc. are not against L-F - it is absolutely fundamental to L-F that coercion (which is caused by harm to others without their consent) be illegal, otherwise L-F would just be anarchy. Pollution is harm to others without their consent, therefore it is banned under L-F.

Well we were talking about how pollution control costs 2% of GDP when most of that cost is in manufacturing. Why do you think services create more pollution and why don't they have pollution control costs?

Doesn't shipping count as services? Think of all the trucks moving around

[Velociryx]

'zazel....mmmm...I agree and disagree. After all, you see so many of our best and our brightest giving up their second (and first, for that matter) homes to go live in communes, yes?

Kid: IF it is offensive to point out the simple fact that the rules in place are NOT as you describe. Not slavery, not unfair, not arbitrary. IF it is offensive to point out that there is another way besides tearing down the entire system without having the first CLUE about what you'll do next. IF it is offensive to suggest that yes, I might have a problem with you and Che running every aspect of my daily life...then so be it. I guess you'll just have to get offended.

Interesting though, that you can take offense at all of that, and call ME a moron and expect I won't take offense.

How very typical.

-=Vel=

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by Kidicious
I know we have, but L-F simply means hands off.

It means no government regulation of the market. Laws against murder, fraud, theft, etc. are not against L-F - it is absolutely fundamental to L-F that coercion (which is caused by harm to others without their consent) be illegal, otherwise L-F would just be anarchy. Pollution is harm to others without their consent, therefore it is banned under L-F.

But regulating murder has nothing to do with the market. Polution control regulates the market.

Doesn't shipping count as services? Think of all the trucks moving around

True

[Az]

zazel....mmmm...I agree and disagree. After all, you see so many of our best and our brightest giving up their second (and first, for that matter) homes to go live in communes, yes?

How many running communes do you know, in your county, non-hippie ones? I actually plan to move to a Kibbutz once I end my military service, so that I'd continue working, and give my share to the Kibbutz.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
But regulating murder has nothing to do with the market.

Yes it does. The market for hitmen.

Polution control regulates the market.

No more than regulating murder does, as above.

[Velociryx]

There are about a dozen, scattered over NA and Europe....maybe more, but that's what a quick search revealed. In any case, what, I wonder, is keeping these highly successful folk from starting one of their own? That seems the likliest place to begin, if that is indeed the goal and belief.

And yet...this is not what is happening.

I suspect I know why, and I suspect you do to!

-=Vel=-

[Az]

Originally posted by Velociryx
There are about a dozen, scattered over NA and Europe....maybe more, but that's what a quick search revealed. In any case, what, I wonder, is keeping these highly successful folk from starting one of their own? That seems the likliest place to begin, if that is indeed the goal and belief.

And yet...this is not what is happening.

I suspect I know why, and I suspect you do to!

-=Vel=-

Umm, because there aren't many lefties around? duh.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yes it does. The market for hitmen.

Ok Kuci.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Ok Kuci.

Pollution is harming others without their consent. Harming others without their consent is necessarily illegal under L-F. Pollution is necessarily illegal under L-F. How difficult is that?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Pollution is harming others without their consent. Harming others without their consent is necessarily illegal under L-F. Pollution is necessarily illegal under L-F. How difficult is that?

You just don't know what you are talking about. L-F has nothing to do with harming people without their consent. It is simply a philosophy of leaving the economy alone. That's it.

[Velociryx]

Ahh but there are. Certainly more than enough to form a commune.

After all, there are party meetings all across the country. Instead of meeting and talking about it, the folks who believe could...put their money where their mouth is, as it were. Start a commune. Make it work small-scale.

Not nearly as much fun as plotting revolution, I realize, but it's a practical application of the beliefs, which seems to me, would be more important.

-=Vel=-
_{unless, and this is entirely within the realm of possibility too, what they REALLY enjoy most is hearing themselves talk about it}