Discourse and Discussion - Cap/Com

[Kidlicious]

Again, I don't think that many sympathize with the corporations. There is much more sympathy for them here than in the real world. The corporations do get a lot of sympathy in Congress though, because of their lobbying effects.

[Arrian]

Right, and though our society does have some protections for the minority, it's still basically majority ruled.

And we do have a system that allows redress for those who are harmed, btw. It's not a particularly efficient one (except at making lawyers rich), but it does exist. It even works sometimes.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Again, I don't think that many sympathize with the corporations. There is much more sympathy for them here than in the real world. The corporations do get a lot of sympathy in Congress though, because of their lobbying effects.

The majority has given its tacit consent by not passing laws absolutely penalizing pollution.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Again, I don't think that many sympathize with the corporations. There is much more sympathy for them here than in the real world. The corporations do get a lot of sympathy in Congress though, because of their lobbying effects.

Actually, this site leans heavily to the Left of mainstream America. Thus, I'd say "sympathy for corporations" here is at the least consistant with the "real world" if not the opposite of what you claim.

Further, what you don't seem to grasp is that corporations do not exist in some sort of vaccum. They are made up of people. They employ people, they produce things... they are the foundation of our economy. Hence it's not just lobbying that gets them Congress' ears. Most of the people who make it to Congress probably understand that having a hostile attitude towards corporations isn't useful unless they - like you - seek to fundamentally reorganize our economy. Since they're not communists.... there ya go.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
Right, and though our society does have some protections for the minority, it's still basically majority ruled.

The ability of the majority to override the rights of a minority is exactly antithetical to laissez-faire capitalism.

My point being that our concessions to corporations (which, IMO, are necessary at some level, because we'd essentially be a primitive agrarian state if pollution were absolutely illegal) are not a weakness of laissez-faire capitalism, but a deviation from it.

[Kidlicious]

Corporate welfare

How many people will really disagree with that?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


The ability of the majority to override the rights of a minority is exactly antithetical to laissez-faire capitalism.

My point being that our concessions to corporations (which, IMO, are necessary at some level, because we'd essentially be a primitive agrarian state if pollution were absolutely illegal) are not a weakness of laissez-faire capitalism, but a deviation from it.

Show me any theoretical system that, when put into practice, doesn't have to be tampered with? Your concept of laissez-faire capitalism (I'm not sure I really agree with your definition, but let's ignore that for now) is an ideal. The ideal never survives contact with the real world

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Actually, this site leans heavily to the Left of mainstream America. Thus, I'd say "sympathy for corporations" here is at the least consistant with the "real world" if not the opposite of what you claim.

Further, what you don't seem to grasp is that corporations do not exist in some sort of vaccum. They are made up of people. They employ people, they produce things... they are the foundation of our economy. Hence it's not just lobbying that gets them Congress' ears. Most of the people who make it to Congress probably understand that having a hostile attitude towards corporations isn't useful unless they - like you - seek to fundamentally reorganize our economy. Since they're not communists.... there ya go.

-Arrian

It's not hostility towards corporations to deny them welfare. It's justice.

[Arrian]

By the way, guess who one of the largest/worst polluters is?

The United States Government. And not just the military, folks.

The USDA is a big factor as well.

That sort of thing would happen under communism as well - if you make things, you will produce pollution in some form. The question is how to minimize it and then deal with what makes it to the environment.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kidicious

It's not hostility towards corporations to deny them welfare. It's justice.

It's not hostility towards the poor to deny them welfare, it's justice [/liberatian]

Once again demonstrating why the Libs & the Commies are both nuts.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Show me any theoretical system that, when put into practice, doesn't have to be tampered with?

Point?

That there is no reason not to pollute in capitalism (and since we're arguing theory, ultimately a challenge against capitalism must attack a property of laissez-faire capitalism, not a deviation from it) is a common argument from the other camp; I'm showing that it's the precise opposite. I oppose laissez-faire capitalism for this and dozens of other reasons, because it requires absolute laws prohibiting pollution.

[Kidlicious]

In a just way Arrian. Justice. You can't just pay people for not poluting. That's corruption.

[Kuciwalker]

Actually, if doing so is the most cost-effective way of reducing pollution, you might as well.

[Arrian]

Well, I for one am not arguing in favor of Lassez-faire capitalism, but rather for the hybrid economy we use in the real world.

I'm not really sure why you want to talk about L-F capitalism, really.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


It's not hostility towards the poor to deny them welfare, it's justice [/liberatian]

Once again demonstrating why the Libs & the Commies are both nuts.

-Arrian

I think you've only demonstrated only that you are nuts. Arguing against welfare in general makes more sense than arguing for corporate welfare just because you feel sory for a corporation. That's ridiculous.