Discourse and Discussion - Cap/Com

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's social recognition: you could get a medal, have a day named in your honor, a park, a street, you could be bumped on the list for better housing as it becomes available, etc.

That works in the third grade. Most adults aren't going to devote huge amounts of effort for the shiny thing.

It works for lots of adults too. Adults jump through all kinds of hoops at work to earn the recognition of their peers without hope of material reward.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
You've clearly misunderstood me. That's the thing I was arguing against, a basic flaw in the consumer retail system.

Why? You're a utilitarian, aren't you? How better to gauge the utility value of an item than by how many people want it?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

@ Che

And yet we glorify in films the renegade who doesn't give a flying flip what others think of him.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


You have no idea how much this represents.

As an example, for a plant with a 10 MM operating budget annually one can easily expect the costs to exceed 5% and likely around 8-10%. That includes an environmental officer, testings, filings, permittings, systems maintenance, operating labor, downtime, waste disposal etc. Makes the opportunity to have start up facilities near non-existant.

You see its not so much the shutting down of existing businesses and moving offshore. No its more the decision to re-invest capital into existing or startup businesses as these especially are the means of new job creation.

You seems to harp on the evil mega-corporations but what you really harm/impact is the small companies that provide the most meaningful job growth potential.

I don't consider 5% that much to pay to reduce polution, but where do you come up with this number anyway?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Congress doesn't issue the permit. That is relegated normally to the EPA and then subsequently delegated to the local state Environmental Agencies.

The EPA was established by Congressional law and uses powers delegated to it by Congress. Same with the FCC - that's why something the FCC does can be unconstitutional, because if Congress doesn't have the power to do X, it doesn't have the power to erect an agency that does X.

[Az]

Why? You're a utilitarian, aren't you? How better to gauge the utility value of an item than by how many people want it?

The same reason that the liberty function is not the same as the utility function. The "free will" of the person, and his instinctive, short-time actions doesn't necessarily represent the best course of action for this person. And yes, I am so smart that I will decide this for them. Ha-ha.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't consider 5% that much to pay to reduce polution, but where do you come up with this number anyway?

Years and years of experience. 5% bounds typically the low end. My experience says it is normally much higher.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
@ Che

And yet we glorify in films the renegade who doesn't give a flying flip what others think of him.

Just because we have a society that gloriyies the maverick doesn't mean we all want to be maveriks. We instinctively seek social recognition. It's a survival trait. Being a maverik may be cool, but it means you're likely die soon and alone. And that too is "cool."

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

The EPA was established by Congressional law and uses powers delegated to it by Congress. Same with the FCC - that's why something the FCC does can be unconstitutional, because if Congress doesn't have the power to do X, it doesn't have the power to erect an agency that does X.

Just a quick question...

What ARE you on about?

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel

Why? You're a utilitarian, aren't you? How better to gauge the utility value of an item than by how many people want it?

The same reason that the liberty function is not the same as the utility function. The "free will" of the person, and his instinctive, short-time actions doesn't necessarily represent the best course of action for this person. And yes, I am so smart that I will decide this for them. Ha-ha.

And people compalin about the consumer culture removing all independent thought...

[Arrian]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Just because we have a society that gloriyies the maverick doesn't mean we all want to be maveriks. We instinctively seek social recognition. It's a survival trait. Being a maverik may be cool, but it means you're likely die soon and alone. And that too is "cool."

Films, after all, are fantasy. We can all imagine for a little while how "cool" it would be to be the maverick. Then we can climb back into our minivans and go home.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
Just a quick question...

What ARE you on about?

-Arrian

I'm not sure.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Years and years of experience. 5% bounds typically the low end. My experience says it is normally much higher.

What is your job, if I may ask?

[Arrian]

edit: @ Kuci. Crosspost.

-Arrian

[Az]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


And people compalin about the consumer culture removing all independent thought...

Actually, it's not the consumer culture, generally, it's the advertising/PR section of it.