Alabama legislator proposes destroying, banning gay books

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'm doing nothing of the sort.

Just making the point, that books in elementary schools are censored, and people approve of this censorship. Why one book should be included and not another, is a decision made by librarians all the time.

Erm...Ben, what you neglected to tell everyone is Canada has 2 public school districts.

The religious public school district DOES allow bibles, while the secular public school district does not...

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by molly bloom
"After years of appeals, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld (5-4) the students’ challenge to the board’s action. The Court held that school boards do not have unrestricted authority to select library books and that the First Amendment is implicated when books are removed arbitrarily.

Justice Brennan declared in the plurality opinion: “Local school boards may not remove books from school library shelves simply because they dislike the ideas contained in those books and seek by their removal to prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion. ”

Board of Education, Island Trees Union Free School District No. 26 v. Pico, 457 U.S. 853, 102 S.Ct. 2799, 73 L.Ed.2d 435 (1982)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A199109

Those quotes are somewhat out of context IMO. Heres the ruling http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...457&invol=853.

I think this quote explains the decision in a better light

"We emphasize at the outset the limited nature of the substantive question presented by the case before us. Our precedents have long recognized certain constitutional limits upon the power of the State to control even the curriculum and classroom. For example, Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390 (1923), struck down a state law that forbade the teaching of modern foreign languages in public and private schools, and Epperson v. Arkansas, 393 U.S. 97 (1968), declared unconstitutional a state law that prohibited the teaching of the Darwinian theory of evolution in any state-supported school. But the current action does not require us to re-enter this difficult terrain, which Meyer and Epperson traversed without apparent misgiving. For as this case is presented to us, it does not involve textbooks, or indeed any books that Island [457 U.S. 853, 862] Trees students would be required to read. 18 Respondents do not seek in this Court to impose limitations upon their school Board's discretion to prescribe the curricula of the Island Trees schools. On the contrary, the only books at issue in this case are library books, books that by their nature are optional rather than required reading. Our adjudication of the present case thus does not intrude into the classroom, or into the compulsory courses taught there. Furthermore, even as to library books, the action before us does not involve the acquisition of books. Respondents have not sought to compel their school Board to add to the school library shelves any books that students desire to read. Rather, the only action challenged in this case is the removal from school libraries of books originally placed there by the school authorities, or without objection from them. "

Later comment suggests that it was the manner in which the school board made the decision, rather than the actual decision per se, that tipped the balance against the school board.

"Standing alone, this evidence respecting the substantive motivations behind petitioners' removal decision would not be decisive. This would be a very different case if the record demonstrated that petitioners had employed established, regular, and facially unbiased procedures for the review of controversial materials. But the actual record in the case before us suggests the exact opposite. Petitioners' removal procedures were vigorously challenged below by respondents, and the evidence on this issue sheds further light on the issue of petitioners' motivations. 26 Respondents alleged that in making their removal decision petitioners ignored "the advice of literary experts," the views of "librarians and teachers within the Island Trees School system," the advice of the Superintendent of Schools, and the guidance of publications that rate books for junior and senior high school students. App. 128-129. Respondents also claimed that petitioners' decision was based solely on the fact that the books were named on the PONYU list received by petitioners Ahrens, Martin, and Hughes, and that petitioners "did not undertake an independent review of other books in the [school] libraries." Id., at 129-130. Evidence before the District Court lends support to these claims. The record shows that immediately after petitioners first ordered the books removed from the library shelves, the Superintendent of Schools reminded them that "we already have a policy . . . designed expressly [457 U.S. 853, 875] to handle such problems," and recommended that the removal decision be approached through this established channel. See n. 4, supra. But the Board disregarded the Superintendent's advice, and instead resorted to the extraordinary procedure of appointing a Book Review Committee - the advice of which was later rejected without explanation. In sum, respondents' allegations and some of the evidentiary materials presented below do not rule out the possibility that petitioners' removal procedures were highly irregular and ad hoc - the antithesis of those procedures that might tend to allay suspicions regarding petitioners' motivations. "

From Rehnquists dissent:

"JUSTICE BRENNAN would hold that the First Amendment gives high school and junior high school students a "right to receive ideas" in the school. Ante, at 867. This right is a curious entitlement. It exists only in the library of the school, and only if the idea previously has been acquired by the school in book form. It provides no protection against a school board's decision not to acquire a particular book, even though that decision denies access to ideas as fully as removal of the book from the library, and it prohibits removal of previously acquired books only if the remover "dislike[s] the ideas contained in those books," even though removal for any other reason also denies the students access to the books. Ante, at 871-872.

But it is not the limitations which JUSTICE BRENNAN places on the right with which I disagree; they simply demonstrate his discomfort with the new doctrine which he fashions out of whole cloth. It is the very existence of a right to receive information, in the junior high school and high school setting, which I find wholly unsupported by our past decisions and inconsistent with the necessarily selective process of elementary and secondary education. "

Rehnquist goes on to shred Brennans argument as the "legislation from the bench" that it is.

Overall, an interesting read (it also contains excerted passages from the books). Having read the decision, I doubt that any State law forbidding 'gay' books would be upheld (if passed). The power of local school boards to act similarly is another matter though.

[Velociryx]

And he's a Republican!

Who'd have thunk it?

I mentioned some weeks ago that all we needed now was a good book burning party....I'm sorry to see that the fundycrats did not disappoint....

-=Vel=-

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Asher

Erm...Ben, what you neglected to tell everyone is Canada has 2 public school districts.

The religious public school district DOES allow bibles, while the secular public school district does not...

It's still crazy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


It's Alabama.

It's one person from Alabama.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I wonder.

Would there be any uproar about having a bible on the shelves of the university collection?

None at all, in fact, the University I worked at had a rather vast collection of Bibles.

What about in an elementary school?

Depends on how anal members of the school board are- certainly in Alabama there are bibles a plenty in schools.

What say ye proponents of free speech?

That you have missed the boat yet again?

[Arrian]

I have no problem with bibles in a public school (although personally I think highschool would be the place, in the context of a comparative religion course). My college certainly had plenty... else the course I took entitled "The Biblical Tradition" would have been rather lacking in its source material.

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
It's still crazy.

I don't see why. Parents can choose if they want their children to have a religious-influenced publically-funded education.

The ones that do not wish their kids to have religious influences in their elementary school go to the secular schools, while the ones that do wish their kids to have religious influences go to the religious schools.

The bible is hate literature, I wouldn't want my kids reading it in elementary school.

I went to a secular elementary school, and once these fundies actually gave out free pocket-sized bibles to everyone at the playground. The police eventually escorted him off the school grounds, and we used the bibles to throw at eachother and have a bible fight (they were soft-cover, with a vinyl-like cover).

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Asher

The bible is hate literature, I wouldn't want my kids reading it in elementary school.

and I believe that as a local community you have the right to decide that

[Dis]

Originally posted by Pekka
To turn everyone gay? Why would a straight man turn to gay? How can he start lusting after men instead of previously women? Makes no sense to me. If you start wanting men, hey breaking news, you were gay to begin with. Yet another bigot who has some sexuality issues. I bet he does it with dead horses.

I think I could become gay.

[axi]

Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
The House of Spirits by Isabel Allende
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain

Banning the classics are we? What's next, Oliver Twist?

[Dis]

Originally posted by molly bloom



So which schools have banned the Bible or the Qu'ran or any other religious text, as opposed to having the teaching of the said text proscribed ?


Yes, books seem frequently to be the target of campaigns to ban them- the Harry Potter books, 'Gulliver's Travels', 'Black Beauty'- but so far you haven't given us any examples of a religious book rather than its teachings being banned.

The 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990–1999

Scary Stories (Series) by Alvin Schwartz

Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite

I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou

The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain

Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck

Forever by Judy Blume

Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson

Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman

The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger

The Giver by Lois Lowry

My Brother Sam is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier

It’s Perfectly Normal by Robie Harris

Alice (Series) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor

Goosebumps (Series) by R.L. Stine

A Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Newton Peck

The Color Purple by Alice Walker

Sex by Madonna

Earth’s Children (Series) by Jean M. Auel

The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson

In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak

The Witches by Roald Dahl

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle

The New Joy of Gay Sex by Charles Silverstein

Go Ask Alice by Anonymous

The Goats by Brock Cole

The Stupids (Series) by Harry Allard

Anastasia Krupnik (Series) by Lois Lowry

Final Exit by Derek Humphry

Blubber by Judy Blume

Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam

Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George

Kaffir Boy by Mark Mathabane

The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison

What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Girls: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Daughters by Lynda Madaras

Fallen Angels by Walter Dean Myers

The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood

The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton

The Pigman by Paul Zindel

To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee

We All Fall Down by Robert Cormier

Deenie by Judy Blume

Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes

Annie on my Mind by Nancy Garden

Beloved by Toni Morrison

The Boy Who Lost His Face by Louis Sachar

Cross Your Fingers, Spit in Your Hat by Alvin Schwartz

Harry Potter (Series) by J.K. Rowling

Cujo by Stephen King

James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl

A Light in the Attic by Shel Silverstein

Ordinary People by Judith Guest

American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

Sleeping Beauty Trilogy by A.N. Roquelaure (Anne Rice)

Bumps in the Night by Harry Allard

Asking About Sex and Growing Up by Joanna Cole

What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Boys: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Sons by Lynda Madaras

The Anarchist Cookbook by William Powell

Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume

Boys and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy

Crazy Lady by Jane Conly

Athletic Shorts by Chris Crutcher

Killing Mr. Griffin by Lois Duncan

Fade by Robert Cormier

Guess What? by Mem Fox

Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut

Lord of the Flies by William Golding

Native Son by Richard Wright

Women on Top: How Real Life Has Changed Women’s

Fantasies by Nancy Friday

Curses, Hexes and Spells by Daniel Cohen

On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer

The House of Spirits by Isabel Allende

Jack by A.M. Homes

Arizona Kid by Ron Koertge

Family Secrets by Norma Klein

Mommy Laid An Egg by Babette Cole

Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo A. Anaya

Where Did I Come From? by Peter Mayle

The Face on the Milk Carton by Caroline Cooney

Carrie by Stephen King

The Dead Zone by Stephen King

The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain

Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison

Always Running by Luis Rodriguez

Private Parts by Howard Stern

Where’s Waldo? by Martin Hanford

Summer of My German Soldier by Bette Greene

Tiger Eyes by Judy Blume

Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman

Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett

Running Loose by Chris Crutcher

Sex Education by Jenny Davis

Jumper by Steven Gould

Christine by Stephen King

The Drowning of Stephen Jones by Bette Greene

That Was Then, This is Now by S.E. Hinton

Girls and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy

The Wish Giver by Bill Brittain

Jump Ship to Freedom by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier


1Out of 5,718 challenges reported to or recorded by the Office for Intellectual Freedom, as compiled by the Office for Intellectual Freedom, American Library Association. The ALA Office for Intellectual Freedom does not claim comprehensiveness in recording challenges. Research suggests that for each challenge reported there are as many as four or five which go unreported.

http://www.ala.org/bbooks/resource.html

and in the United States:

" Nine banned titles: Slaughterhouse-Five [and others].
In 1975, three school board members sought the removal of several books determined objectionable by a politically conservative organization. The following February, the board gave an “unofficial direction” that the books be removed from the school libraries, so that board members could read them. When the board action attracted press attention, the board described the books as “anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, and just plain filthy.” The nine books that were the subject of the lawsuit were Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.; The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris; Down These Mean Streets by Piri Thomas; Best Short Stories of Negro Writers edited by Langston Hughes; Go Ask Alice ; Laughing Boy by Oliver LaFarge; Black Boy by Richard Wright; A Hero Ain’t Nothin’ But a Sandwich by Alice Childress; and Soul on Ice by Eldrige Cleaver.
The board appointed a review committee that recommended that five of the books be returned to the shelves, two be placed on restricted shelves, and two be removed from the library. The full board voted to remove all but one book.

After years of appeals, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld (5-4) the students’ challenge to the board’s action. The Court held that school boards do not have unrestricted authority to select library books and that the First Amendment is implicated when books are removed arbitrarily.

Justice Brennan declared in the plurality opinion: “Local school boards may not remove books from school library shelves simply because they dislike the ideas contained in those books and seek by their removal to prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion. ”

Board of Education, Island Trees Union Free School District No. 26 v. Pico, 457 U.S. 853, 102 S.Ct. 2799, 73 L.Ed.2d 435 (1982)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A199109

a wrinkle in time is on that list! wtf! I read that book when I was a kid.

A Madonna book is on that list. I agree with that. Anything about Madonna should be banned.

and Cujo is on that list.

the anarchist cookbook- well that just makes good sense.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SpencerH
and I believe that as a local community you have the right to decide that

Which is why the local community did decide it, when voting for school board trustees that do separate secular and religious education.

[Dis]

Originally posted by axi


Banning the classics are we? What's next, Oliver Twist?

you forgot To Kill a Mockingbird was on that list. Another classic.

[Last Conformist]

@Asher: I don't see how the existence of Bibles in the school library makes the education religious-influenced. My highschool had some pieces by Stalin in the library* - does that make my education stalinist-influenced? The Bible should be available as a reference for any student writing a paper on religion, and Western philosophy or literature two, altho those probably won't be much touched in elementary school.

* Incl a piece on sociolinguistics, of all things.