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Originally posted by Pekka
So this is my 3rd attempt. Are these retarded babies born or not when they kill them?
So this is my 3rd attempt. Are these retarded babies born or not when they kill them?
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Killed after being born it seems.Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah -
Why should the infant be forced to suffer years of constant, excruciating pain?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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This thread is evidence that liberals just don't believe human life is really special in any way. If it is thought that one's life must be difficult, better to snuff it."I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - SlowwhandComment
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OZzyKP, well that's what I'm wondering. I mean, sometimes when baby is badly retarded, that's usually an opening for possible abortion. I mean that they still do that sometimes legally in many countries, not just the Netherlands. It's not my opinion, if my baby is retarded, I'm going to have it anyway.
However, if they are already born, they can eliminate them like that???? That seems kind of.. uhm.. I don't know. They better be in pain straight from hell 24/7 and I'd have to see it in my own eyes and nothing could be done to the baby and it would never be any better at all.. then I don't know but just with the face value it seems kind of like a ... bad idea. I don't know how to handle that information. I'm in a blank mode. Seems like the wrong thing to do though. For me it sounds like that. But it better be stick through your head and car running over you all the time kind of pain before I could even consider it an option. Just mildly 'normally' retarded, I think that could be a problem for me and be over the limits of acceptable.In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.Comment
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This thread is evidence that conservatives trivialize health conditions that cause unbearable pain."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Infants have no concept of death. I know I didn't until I was at least 5-6 years old. I certainly didn't have any notion of my own mortality until much later.Originally posted by OzzyKP
It is a reasonably safe assumption that all people desire life. It is our nature. Yes, even infants.
Infants do have a very real concept of pain and suffering, however. What they desire is to not have pain.
And it could be that your "err" ends up prolonging the suffering of someone who didn't want it and would in no way thank you for it.Besides, I'd rather err on the side of caution, i.e. life. If the infant decides a few years later he would prefer death, that could easily be arranged. A dead infant gets no second chances.
We're not talking here about babies who can have second chances. We're talking about babies that have no chance. These are cases where the infant would likely survive only a very short painful time anyway. And also cases where the infant would most likely never even be able to make such a decision.Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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I don't see how it is your position to determine how much pain I may or may not be feeling. And especially not your position to determine how much pain I may or may not face in the future. And also is not your place to determine if it is worth it.
Same is true for anyone else.
Jon MillerJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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Are you saying that you have as much competence to make decisions as an infant? Should infants have the right to smoke, drink, drive, etc.,?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Your post is evidence you think only in black/white.Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
This thread is evidence that liberals just don't believe human life is really special in any way. If it is thought that one's life must be difficult, better to snuff it.
We're not talking about euthanizing someone just because their life would be difficult. That's a strawman if I ever saw it.
I'll reiterate for your benefit:
This is only for the most extreme cases, where life is guaranteed to be short and horrible anyway. I have no idea what's so "special" about blithely letting little babies live on in agony just because some people are too gutless to make a really tough decision.Groningen estimated the protocol would be applicable in about 10 cases per year in the Netherlands, a country of 16 million people.Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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AFAIK these cases are not about retarted babies. It's about infants with disabilities who suffer chronic severe pain that cannot be significantly eased with medicine.Originally posted by Pekka
So this is my 3rd attempt. Are these retarded babies born or not when they kill them?Comment
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No, but I am saying that their lives should not be taken from them.
That is a fairly big decision, and one that only they (if anyone) should be able to make. If they are too young to make it (like infants are) than they should be supported until they can make it.
Jon MillerJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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An important point:
A lot of these babies are born extremely premature (i'm talking at around 20-24 weeks here) - this is thanks to advances in medical science that makes them viable, they would have simply died before.
The chances of a baby suffering severe brain damage is much, much higher when it is born very premature as, although the technology to keep them alive has advanced the technology to nurture them as they would be in the womb has not.19th Century Liberal, 21st Century EuropeanComment
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Would you say doctors might be in a position to determine this? I certainly do.Originally posted by Jon Miller
I don't see how it is your position to determine how much pain I may or may not be feeling. And especially not your position to determine how much pain I may or may not face in the future. And also is not your place to determine if it is worth it.
Same is true for anyone else.
Jon MillerTutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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For example Ramo. I think that being an Anarchist is a retarded position. Therefore I think that you are retarded (this here is a fallacy, and so just bear with me for arguments sake). As a ****** you should be put out of your misery, because your life would just be meaningless pain. As a ******, what you say would be pretty meaningless and can be ignored.
Jon MillerJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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No, but I am saying that their lives should not be taken from them.
That is a fairly big decision, and one that only they (if anyone) should be able to make. If they are too young to make it (like infants are) than they should be supported until they can make it.
So, again, why should the infant be forced to suffer years of constant, excruciating pain?
And how old is old enough to decide to euthanise oneself?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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