Feeling up women's private parts to fight terrorism

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Oerdin


If you would read the article instead of becoming hysterical you'd learn that there were no "cavity searches" or checking of "g-spots". Instead people were patted down just like the police do in any arrest.

Che is right that proper proceedures must be followed but claiming a pat down is the same as a cavity search is just assinine.

Hey, I'm only predicting the future when someone comes up with the idea that some people might try to smuggle in C-4 hidden inside dildoes in their anus.

Plus article was read. Hysterical=US officials, Furious=Me

[chequita guevara]

You know, if women's privates need to be felt up to make the world safer, I think we could all volunteer for that.

[Sirotnikov]

You missed my point. Here I tried to say that even the most oppressive and totalitarian police states in the history honoured foreign citizens rights. I'm not going to start about their own citizens rights or people spying at you. A physical violation is a completely different thing from a phone tapping.

I'd rather be "physically violated", as you call it.

In any case, I was under the impression the story didn't mention foreigners being violated as they come in, but of people boarding flights in the US.

You know sometimes its good to make a scene out of these things. We have a right to protest, how else would our voice be heard?

Its rarely good or mature to make a scene out of things.

You want to protest - write a letter, publish an article, stage a protest. Complain to the manager.

The person that checks you is doing his job. No reason to give him an especially bad day.

don't throw a scene, cause you'll just be jailed or something.

Its like when you're stopped by a police officer for a routine liscence / alcohol check, and then you throw a scene - "you're just checking me cause I'm foreign / black / muslim / jewish!".

I disagree. Chemical Ollie just provided excellent examples of non conventional ways of smuggling explosives into a plane. ...

AFAIK most terrorists are not very well trained to make very clever bombs and hide them very well.

In any case, the bombs always take up space and have to be hidden somewhere!

Searching for them doesn't give a 100% protection, but it assures 95% protection. Which is always better than hoping no terrorist attacks us today, which seems was the usual line of defence until 9/11.

Thats hardly the same thing as going to an aeroplane is it. And besides its probably a standard in most countries, and especially important in your country.

Yes, but my point was that I was undergoing a very intensive check and it wasn't that very bad.

My point is that such tests are what you make them to be.

Of course its annoying if you're tired and want to go board the plane / go home / whatever.


For instance, in Israel you have to be tested by a metal detector and open your bag when you go into places like malls, movie theaters, locations with large crowds and so on.

Sure its a bother and sometimes not so pleasant.

I once had to open my bag several times, right after I bought kinky accessories. I thought it would be wierd. And guess what? The security guy didn't care, and didn't start pointing a laughing. He had a freaking long day and all he cared was that I didn't have a bomb in my posession.

And, sadly, the rest of the world has become less secure, and thorough checks are required in Australia and America too.

Its a bother, but its only humiliating if you think of it that way.

Of course I'd be offended if some jerk on the street would feel me up.

But the security guy isn't some jerk. He has a job. He might as well be the first one to get killed if a terrorist comes. I don't think he has a power rush or that he enjoys touching strangers all day long.

You should try to view things from a different perspective.

[:) Smiley]

Say, why not make airplanes unblowuppable and do away with this debate entirely?

[Shi Huangdi]

I think Che is most on the mark here of anyone. It's a good idea to make sure they are always offered the option of the screening being done in a private room and with the back of the hand. But while someone being made uncomftorable is not good, people getting killed because of something a terrorist smuggled in their underwear is much much worse

[Agathon]

If this carries on, it will make it the #1 desired job amongst America's pervos.

The priesthood is going to have a hard time recruiting next year.

[Dinner]

I already know one guy who works for TSA and he's a total perv.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think we should have several levels of screening ranging from very light "walk through metal detector/X-ray Bag" all the way to "pointed interview and back ground check/full search of person and baggage". People get sorted into the apropriate level of Screening based on risk factors. You get a point for each other following criteria you fuffill

Being between the ages of 18-50
Being Male
Being Forign Born
Any observed inconsistency in ID
Being Arab
Having spent any time in a Middle-Eastern Country
Flight is Incoming International

The more points you have the higher your screening level, so yes we will and should dicriminate on EVERY usefull criteria we can find. Random searches are pointless and a waste of valuable resorces that could be better used if targeted on individuals who actualy are more likly to be dangerous.

[laurentius]

Sirotnikov: I can understand all those measures in Israel, where tens perhaps hundreds of terracts have occurred. and I think in Israel its totally appropriate and I would happily accept those kind of searches. In the US however, I dont see the point of these kinds of checks. How many bombs/guns etc have they found there? This is just american hysteria again, remember when they rushed to buy ducktape and canned food during the anthrax threat?

The point: Situation in Israel is very "special" and measures taken up by the authorities there are relevant only in Israel.

[Sirotnikov]

I agree Israel requires better and more frequent checks.

However, sadly, I think the rest of the world isn't very secure anymore.


And the potencial for harm in the US is much much greater since:
- There are far more targets in the US
- Al-Qaeda don't limit themselves to "small scale" action.
- Al-Qaeda seem to be even more committed than Hamas.
- The US has far more immigrants and visitors, and also much more planes etc.

[Elok]

Jeez, I thought my lame witticism would be sufficient. Turns out people ignored it. Alas. Well, here are some fun arguments against racial profiling:

-It further cements the image, used for recruiting purposes by aQ to great effect, of America Waging a War on Islam.
-It ain't that effective. I've met plenty of Arabs who could easily pass for white (I know a girl who dyes her hair and looks eerily like Bridget Fonda's character from Jackie Brown, only with a light tan), and plenty of Muslims aren't Arabs anyway. If they can put the effort into planning simultaneous hijackings, they can probably manage a decent disguise. And even a stupid Nigerian 419 con artist can get a fake ID good enough to fool airport security if he feels like making the effort. So much for country of origin. Get real.
-While we're at it, the vast majority of the Arabs I've met were Antiochian Orthodox, not Muslim. And I've met hundreds. Yes, the majority are Muslim, but that's not sufficient reason to harass all my friends if you ask me.
-Oh, and Bush actually got one thing right: the vast majority of Muslims are not suicidal fanatics. Our buddies in al Qaeda are the far lunatic fringe of the faith, comparable to the KKK's place within Christianity. So potential terrorists are maybe, what, .01% of the Arabs who get on a plane in the U.S.?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by MrFun
Choosing between disruption of one's economic security and well-being or having your private body parts violated.

So you which one would you choose then?

That would depend on circumstances.

I do not, however, consider body-exams to necessarily be violations.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

I disagree. Chemical Ollie just provided excellent examples of non conventional ways of smuggling explosives into a plane. ...

---
AFAIK most terrorists are not very well trained to make very clever bombs and hide them very well.

In any case, the bombs always take up space and have to be hidden somewhere! ---

That's a very arrogant and lazy attitude. Not what I expected from a member of Israel's armed forces.

It is very dangerous to underestimate your enemy. The Lockerbie bomb that killed my neighbour, who's parents are living 500 meters from where I sit, was clever enough. A few hundred grams of explosives hidden inside a radio killed several hundred people. Hundreds of tonnes of the similar stuff has gone off the map in Iraq, thanks to USA.


The same explosives could be hidden inside bottles of perfume, shaving foam or whatever. The detonators could be hidden inside balltip pen ink reservoirs, AAA batteries or whatever, then transferred to the bomb before blowing it, as you do on regular hand grenades. If they can make fake Rolex watches for 10 dollars, or fake dollar bills that pass most optical-mechanical tests, they can surely make bombs disguised as anything. Your fantasy is the only limitation - don't underestimate them!

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


That's a very arrogant and lazy attitude. Not what I expected from a member of Israel's armed forces.
..... Your fantasy is the only limitation - don't underestimate them!

They already disguised bombs for dolls, water melons, beer bottles, and hidden bombs in parts in a guy's boxers.


That's not nice.


I'm not saying that a physical will solve everything.

But a screening + physical + sniffing dogs + special devices will give you a 98% (?) certainty.

IF anything - it will make terrorists work much harder - which is what we want. We wanted them to do hard work, and for it to take lots of time and be ineffective, and also easy to trace or discover.

We can't say "well terrorists are all too unpredictable, so we ought to give up luggage checks at all"...

Terrorists look for loopholes. Security's job is to find those first and close them.

[Traianvs]

I think this policy is right.
After all what if some chick take out that double barrel shotgun out of her vagina and starts blasting away.
Other women could be hiding entire fragmentation grenades to be detonated during flight888888888!!!!!!!!!!