Ukraine

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson


Tell that to Ukrainians. I'm sure they'll love You.

Who cares? Sech means light fortification, a barricade of timber actually. It wasn't a city and surelly it was a capital of nothing.

[Serb]

Originally posted by laurentius
Cto eto za zapad?
Rossija net vostok Kak indija ili Kitaj?
Ja ne hozhu cto eto pravda!

Zapad eto to, chto hotelo unichtozhit' Rossiyu na protezhenii vekov, i vse eshe hochet unichtozhit ee.

No v nastojashim vremja situatsija v Ukraine...
Po-moemu eto istorichesskaja druzba mezdu narodi i Ukraini i Polshyi.

What ****ing friendship you are talikng about? Poland f*cked Ukraine for centuries. Ukraine joined Russia, not because they dreamed about reunion of Slavic people, but to seek protection from their Polish masters.

Kak ty ochin horoso znaesh sejchas Kwasnievskij i Walensa v Kieve.

You mean Loh Walensa? The leader of 'solidarnost'?
1) This guys is surelly a 100% Loh.
2) It is not surprising he is in Ukraine now. He knows how to owerthrow governments. I'm sure Yushenko will apreciate the experience this expert of coups can share with him.

Eto ochin jasno Polsha hocit cto Ukraina vctupaet v evrosojuza.

1) Poland wants Ukraine to become their vassal once again. It's Poland-US project to create a new power in Europe (Poland+Lithuania+Ukraine as Poland's puppet). This Rech Pospolita-2 in time should become a counter-weight to Germany and France.
2) Who cares what Poland wants? Only Ukranians themselves in possition to decide the future of their country.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
I understood strangely little of that.

Learn some Finnish-Russian then. His text is not perfect, but perfectly understandable.

[Serb]

Originally posted by laurentius


Is this why you didnt understand it? It is in Russian. I'm sorry I should have aimed it at them...

Your Russian probaly is better than my English and sure way better than my Finnish, which is non-existent.

What I'm asking is "What is West?" I hope to get answer soon.

I hope you've got your answer now. In case if you need an oversimplification for this term- it's bunch of mofos. Hope it helps.

[Serb]

Originally posted by BlackCat


There isn't much to get. He blames anyone from the west for the fall of the soviet empire (well, about that one point he's right ) and see every attempt from the former colonies to lessen the bonds to russia as another attack on russia.

1) They weren't colonies.
2) How the hell Ukraine can lessen the bonds with Russia, without harm for itself? It exists thanks to Russia, Russian gas and more importantly Russian MARKET. Their goods CAN't compete on European market. Millions of Ukranians work in Russia to feed their famalies in Ukraine. Majority of Ukranians who voted for Yanukovich want closer relations with Russia, because those people actually work and their work produce 80% of Ukranian GDP, and closer relations with Russia will benefit them. Another half of Ukraine contribute to remaining 20% of GDP and those chatterboxes, suckers and loosers who populate western Ukraine, traditionally blame Russia for all their troubles. They simply hate Russia. The west encouraged this feeling and sponsored them in their attempt to illigally capture the power in Ukraine (so far their attampt is successfull), because the west doesn't need an Ukranian government freindly to Russia, they need an Ukranian government hostile to Russia.

[Heresson]

1) Poland wants Ukraine to become their vassal once again. It's Poland-US project to create a new power in Europe (Poland+Lithuania+Ukraine as Poland's puppet). This Rech Pospolita-2 in time should become a counter-weight to Germany and France.

Serb, You're living in a fantasy world.

[Serb]

This fantasy world called Earth.

[Heresson]

No, it's called paranoia

[Serb]

Humans who populate Earth are self-destructing paranoids.
You think this 21st century is somehow different from the rest of the human history? No more coups? No more covert operations? No more propaganda, etc?
If you think so, it is you who need a doctor, not me.

[Serb]

Just a bit of background iformation about those fancy pro-western, pro-liberal, pro-democracy heroes.


Nazi and Yushenko

1 of June press-sercvice of Panukrainian union "Svoboda" (Freedom) that was named as Social-National party of Ukraine before (leader is Oleg Tyagnibok) and have been used symbolic that associated with swastika spread message that nationalistic organizations of Ukraine will unite for support of Viktor Yushenko on presidental elections as real and only one candidate from national-patriotic forces.

26 of June march of faschists have been happened in Kiev. Hundreds of fighters from UNA went through center of Kiev city. Near the Sophia Kievska temple was meeting of faschists where were nazi speech and calls to support Yushenko. Officials from "NU" told that it was provocation made by authorities, but they were not to prevent this march. Some analitics thinks that it was special strategy of "NU": 1) to show to nazi groups that Yushenko follow the same nazi politics; 2) to wait reaction of masses and after it make declaration.

18 of July political party "Reformi i poryadok" that get in block of Viktor Yushenko was renamed to "Nasha Ukraina" ("NU").

15 of July MP Oleg Tyagnibok was on meeting in Ivano-Frankovsk region, near the grave of Klim Savur, combat of Ukrainian Rebel Army. He told: "They were not affraid and we must to not affraid, they take guns and went to these forests, they've fight with russians, germans, jews and otherdirties who want to take off our ukrainian state... Ukraine must be for ukrainians. Those young people and you're grey-haired - this is mixture that keep in fear the moscow-jewish mafia who rules in Ukraine now".
This speech was qualificated like xenophobic. Week later Tyagnibok presented apologies
and told that it was his personal position but not of "NU" and his leader.

30 of July Prosecutor office of Ivano-Frankovsk region open criminal case against Tyagnibok for kindling of national war and humiliation of national pride and honour.

10 of September parliament fraction decide to exclude Oleg Tyagnibok from fraction. Speaker of parliament Vladimir Litvin read official declaration of fraction.
In Odessa city in October were spreaded pamphlets with title "Rise up, honest ukrainians! And to kill russians!" signed by Oleg Tyagnibok. In pamphlets were calls to make violence, to change form of state and other xenophobic messages. Parallely with spreading of these pamphlets were made agitation for Viktor Yushenko. CIS EMO organization that observe elections in CIS countries ask to take attention "the double position of election headquarters of Yushenko who from one side declare democratic principles and from other side uses service of politica with ultranationalistic and faschistic visions".

Politologs tells that anyway block "NU" will not exist because a lot of inner conflicts between Yushenko and his suppoprters, very weak coordination and no ideology. Also on base of old rihghtwing parties ("NU" is this one) prepared creation of new rightwing political party.

Also a lot of big events to support Viktor Yushenko have been done by Andrey Sereda, leader of famous music band "Komu vniz" that have fascist image. He often to use slogan "Ukraine for ukrainians" on meetings. A lot of camps in Kiev now secured by skinheads that bring to them positive image of protectors.
US and Yushenko

More than 13 millions $ US were given by different US foundations to pro-Yushenko organizations. At first in Ukraine were founded pan-ukrainian organizations "Pora" and "Chista Ukraina" that have image of stidents organizations.
Yushenko have no back way cause so much money (also from ukrainian oligarchy) invested in him and his chimera. He will follow liberal reforms. It mean globalization of economy and privatization.

"I'm economist and for me money have not geography. I'm for active work of foreign investors in Ukraine" - Yushenko told in interview to "Gazeta.Ru".

Transnational corporation will come to Ukraine for exploiting of cheap labour. A lot of points of legislation will be changed. For example, in Ukraine prohibited to sell and use GMO products, but after pressing of US corporation for sure it will be here.

When Yushenko was prime-minister a lot of economicaly good contracts with different countries were canceled. In exchange for this damaged for Ukraine deal US government promised to provide credits bearing no interests. Ukrainian factories paid penalties to foreign partners and US have been not provide promised money. Is it good deal?

Viktor Yushenko was 9 years in authorities (head of National bank of Ukraine, prime-minister) and during all this time in country was unstability, high level of jobless).

Power of woman

Another important person from Yuhsenko crew who now call to do revolution is Yulia Timoshenko. She was vice-prime-minister of Pavel Lazarenko, ex prime-minister, arrested and prisoned in USA for corruption.
General prosecutor office of Ukraine in 2000 start prosecution against Yulia Timoshenko and her husband Alexandr Timoshenko according to fact of giving bribe ( 3 millions $ US) to officials from Ministry of defence of Russia during time when he was head of United energetic systems of Ukraine ("UES"). Prosecutor office spread information that this bribe help to Timoshenko to steal more than 400 millions $ US. Also Yulia Timoshenko have did made only 30% of work for russian Ministry of defence and in result official Russia still doing prosecution of Yulia Timoshenko. Gennady Timoshenko (husband's father), ex-general director of "UES" was arrested in Turkey in June 2002 and sent out to Ukraine. He and other three persons are from list of Interpol.

Ukrainian authorities also accuse Timoshenko for sale ukrainian corporation to british United Energy International (85% of bonds is property of UK one, this company was found in UK by turkish citizen Erkument Aksa because of order of Yulia Timoshenko), falsification of documents, contrabanda of gas and stealing of State's property.
In end of August this year Yulia Timoshenko promised to began national riot if results of elections will be "not good".

22 0f Nov. Yulia Timoshenko call people to massapeal disorders and doing it during all time of strike.

http://ptv.j25.org.uk/

Liberators, my ass.

[lord of the mark]

Ukraine's Jewish community wonders: Is Viktor Yushchenko good for the Jews?

By Lily Galili

The 100,000 Jews living in Ukraine lack any real impact on election results in a country with 50 million inhabitants. But like other places in the world, Jewish strength is not measured in numbers only, but in terms of its economic and political power. At present, there are 15 Jewish representatives in the Ukrainian parliament, a number much greater than their proportion in the population, and Jewish tycoons can be found in the political camps of both challenger Viktor Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich.


According to sources following the election in Ukraine, most Jews supported the liberal Yushchenko, because of his links to the West, but also out of concern that the reelection of Yanukovich, with his ties to Russia, would force isolation on Ukraine and nudge it closer to the Arab world. However, Yushchenko's Jewish supporters are not without concerns over the strengthening of the Ukrainian nationalist elements in his party, which they believe could bring about an increase in anti-Semitism in the country.

"The present government, with its ties to Russia, is good for the Jews," said one Jewish activist in western Ukraine who asked to remain anonymous. "There were only short periods of independence in Ukraine. Objectively speaking, the struggle here now can be seen in a positive light as the beginning of the flourishing of a civil society. But from the Jewish perspective, I'm not sure it's good. The freedom heralded by Yushchenko's party strengthens nationalist elements around him. So far in western Ukraine [where most of whose residents supported Yushchenko], there have been fewer anti-Semitic incidents than in Western Europe. Here and there, swastikas were painted, sometimes tombstones were smashed. The present government is fighting this. So there is fear of change."

This attitude trickled down to an article published last week in the British daily The Guardian, which noted Yushchenko's ambivalent position on closing down an opposition paper after it published a stinging anti-Semitic article. The article in Selskie Vesti ("Village News"), stated that Jews had joined the German army in invading Ukraine. Senior Ukrainian officials, among them Yanukovich, called for the closing of the paper.

Yushchenko, however, wavered in his response. In the midst of the election campaign, the most widely read opposition paper, which had supported him, was too important to give up easily. Only after initial confusion did Yushchenko criticize the article and join the call to shut down the paper.

"I am convinced the article was commissioned to blacken the name of Yushchenko and sabotage a source of support for him," said Leonid Finberg, director of the Judaica Institute in Kiev and chairman of a publishing house. "Presenting him as a person who supports anti-Semitism is a terrible distortion. His father was in Auschwitz, and it is known that his family saved Jews during the Holocaust. The Ukrainian intelligensia, including the Jews, supports him completely. He had made a great contribution to constructive dialogue between the Jewish and the Ukrainian intelligensia."

Finberg also told of the strong position Yushchenko took at a conference on anti-Semitism in Sweden and about an appearance he made before a group of Ukrainian Jews.

Finberg attached little importance to graffiti calling to strike at Jews and Russians that was painted on the walls of clubs associated with Yushchenko, "There are nationalist and anti-Semitic elements on the fringes of all political personalities here. I have no doubt that Yushchenko and his people are not connected to this. Such graffiti can be found today all over the world, including Israel."

The head of the Ukrainian Jewish community, Yosef Zisles, rejected what he called "absurd rumors" connecting Yushchenko to anti-Semitism.

[Ramo]

MEDICAL experts have confirmed that Viktor Yushchenko, Ukraine’s opposition leader, was poisoned in an attempt on his life during election campaigning, the doctor who supervised his treatment at an Austrian clinic said yesterday.

Doctors at Vienna’s exclusive Rudolfinerhaus clinic are within days of identifying the substance that left Mr Yushchenko’s face disfigured with cysts and lesions, Nikolai Korpan told The Times in a telephone interview.

Specialists in Britain, the United States and France had helped to establish that it was a biological agent, a chemical agent or, most likely, a rare poison that struck him down in the run-up to the presidential election, he said. Doctors needed to examine Mr Yushchenko again at the clinic in Vienna to confirm their diagnosis but were in no doubt that the substance was administered deliberately, he said.

“This is no longer a question for discussion,” Dr Korpan said. “We are now sure that we can confirm which substance caused this illness. He received this substance from other people who had a specific aim.”

Asked if the aim had been to kill him, Dr Korpan said: “Yes, of course.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1393172,00.html

Christ, this situation is insane.

[Jaguar]

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Serb
Humans who populate Earth are self-destructing paranoids.
You think this 21st century is somehow different from the rest of the human history? No more coups? No more covert operations? No more propaganda, etc?
If you think so, it is you who need a doctor, not me.

from the other thread:

Originally posted by Serb
Sh!t happens time after time, but it doesn't mean that every sh!t is a result of conspiracy.

Flip-flopper!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ramo

MEDICAL experts have confirmed that Viktor Yushchenko, Ukraine’s opposition leader, was poisoned in an attempt on his life during election campaigning, the doctor who supervised his treatment at an Austrian clinic said yesterday.

Doctors at Vienna’s exclusive Rudolfinerhaus clinic are within days of identifying the substance that left Mr Yushchenko’s face disfigured with cysts and lesions, Nikolai Korpan told The Times in a telephone interview.

Specialists in Britain, the United States and France had helped to establish that it was a biological agent, a chemical agent or, most likely, a rare poison that struck him down in the run-up to the presidential election, he said. Doctors needed to examine Mr Yushchenko again at the clinic in Vienna to confirm their diagnosis but were in no doubt that the substance was administered deliberately, he said.

“This is no longer a question for discussion,” Dr Korpan said. “We are now sure that we can confirm which substance caused this illness. He received this substance from other people who had a specific aim.”

Asked if the aim had been to kill him, Dr Korpan said: “Yes, of course.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1393172,00.html

Christ, this situation is insane.

Too lazy to type something new, from another thread:

I call this whole article a plain bulls!t. Yushenko just made another move to get more voters. Another old good lie. That's all.

p.s. Who the hell is this Nikolai Korpan (his name sounds pretty Ukranian, for an Austrian, if you ask me) and wht the hell his words (backed by nothing) weight more than words of the cheif of this Austrian hospital and words of Ukranian experts from the office of public presecutor and parliamentary commision?