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  • #76
    Friday, November 19, 2004
    Summary of provisional ballots count - UPDATED 11/19/04

    Current % of provisionals certified (of counties reported):
    74%

    Current "additional" vote count:
    Bush +6,202
    Kerry + 4,084


    Look at those numbers. Only small counties have reported in with their results. One would expect small counties to go heavily for Bush. In fact, if you look at county-by-county numbers, Kerry is typically doing better than in the general results (especially in the less pro-Bush counties). Of all the counties that have reported in their results, Kerry hadn't won a single one in the general. The closest is Clark County where he lost by 2% in the general, and he's winning by 8% among provisionals.

    If this trend holds, Kerry will do remarkably better than the general results in the lop-sided pro-Kerry counties, where most of the provisional ballots are, and Kerry will increase his margin fairly significantly. For instance, Cuyahoga County, which Kerry won 2-1, which hasn't reported in yet, about 16,500 provisionals are estimated to be valid (of 24,788).
    http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=13&ID=192962&r=0&external=&newCookie=yes&userID=49783

    As for the undervotes, they'll be counted in the recount.

    With the possibility of fraud, the election is definitely not over, not by a longshot.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

    Comment

    • #77
      County-by-county results, for those who are curious:
      ohvotesuppression
      http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/2004/11/summary-of-provisional-ballots-count.html


      And the non-provisional tally:
      Just a moment...
      http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/2004/main.htm
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

      Comment

      • #78
        Oh, and I forgot to mention that e-voting needs to be dumped. Regardless of who won in real totals and in e-totals. It needs to be dumped on principle.
        meet the new boss, same as the old boss

        Comment

        • #79
          Originally posted by mrmitchell
          Oh, and I forgot to mention that e-voting needs to be dumped. Regardless of who won in real totals and in e-totals. It needs to be dumped on principle.
          I agree.

          Comment

          • #80
            "
            As for the undervotes, they'll be counted in the recount."

            Source?
            "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

            "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

            Comment

            • #81
              Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
              "
              As for the undervotes, they'll be counted in the recount."

              Source?
              Shi: Thats what a recount is. Think of an undervote as a mistake in the counting process the first time around. When you recount, hopefully, you catch those mistakes.

              Evidence of these kinds of mistakes are counties where 600 people were registered to vote, yet one candidate got 14,000 votes from it.

              An undervote isn't a particular kind of ballot.

              Comment

              • #82
                It depends on what Ohio's laws are. In Florida, the intention of the voter is what determines the count of an under or over vote. If Ohio law says they have to be clearly marked, undervotes might not be counted, but overvotes would have to be. It all depends on the relevent law.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                Comment

                • #83
                  Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                  It depends on what Ohio's laws are. In Florida, the intention of the voter is what determines the count of an under or over vote. If Ohio law says they have to be clearly marked, undervotes might not be counted, but overvotes would have to be. It all depends on the relevent law.
                  From what I gather, Ohio will have a really tough time arguing that the undervotes can't be counted (if they chose to argue it) since Ohio laws are less clearly defined than Florida's. They will actually have an especially tough time arguing against it because of what happened in Florida.

                  I'd bet on them counting this time around.

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    I can't find the link, but there's a single statewide standard in Ohio for counting undervotes: if 0 or 1 corners remain, the vote's counted, and if 2 or 3 corners remain, the vote's not counted.
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Ramo
                      I can't find the link, but there's a single statewide standard in Ohio for counting undervotes: if 0 or 1 corners remain, the vote's counted, and if 2 or 3 corners remain, the vote's not counted.
                      That sounds about right. Any word on what most of these ballots look like?

                      Comment

                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
                        A bit on undervotes:

                        Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes were based on a margin of 2 percent in the vote, has other problems tonight. The state reports 92,000 presidential votes did not count. Ranging from votes improperly cast to votes improperly counted. And in Cuyahoga County, that is greater Cleveland, the official records of 29 different voting precincts show more votes than registered voters to a total of 93,000 extra votes in that county alone.


                        As an example, in Fairview Park, 12 miles west of Cleveland, 13,342 voters were registered. 18,472 votes were cast. None of this even addresses the story we told you about last week in the town of Gahanna outside Columbus, Ohio. There in a district with just 800 voters, a voting machine added 3,893 votes to Mr. Bush‘s total.


                        http://reprints.msnbc.com/id/6442857/


                        Edit: And this is MSNBC people, not moveon.org or anything like that.

                        Edit: This is why a recount is so important. These voting irregularities will only be rectified in an official recount.

                        Edit: Huge "swaths of red" my ass. This is a more accurate representation. We are a purple nation, truly divided.



                        source
                        Doesn't anyone realize how absolutely insane this is? My god, the number of registered voters is going to be a lot more than the number of actual votes. For one, 100% of the actual registered voters present never vote. For another, the registered voter lists for an area always have people that haven't been around for at least 4 years and in some cases more (in Ohio, IIRC there was a messup in 2000 where they lost the dates on registrations, so it might be as long as 8 years). Hence it is highly suspicious to even have as many votes as registered voters, and we are seeing cases of many more.

                        Very disturbing.

                        And can anyone give me a case where there were extra votes in excess of 1000 anywhere that were all for Kerry? It's been happening the other only, as far as I know.

                        -Drachasor
                        "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Drachasor
                          And can anyone give me a case where there were extra votes in excess of 1000 anywhere that were all for Kerry? It's been happening the other only, as far as I know.

                          -Drachasor
                          Nope, not that I know of. And I'm sure the Bush cronies would let us know if there was.

                          The fact that the trend is towards giving Bush extra votes, and giving Kerry in some instances less... combined with the provisional ballots and other under/over votes is whats going to make this recount very, very interesting.

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Actually, the Cuyahoga County results have been explained. What happened is that the county-wide results included absentee ballots, while the precinct results didn't (since they would have to be sorted).
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Ramo
                              Actually, the Cuyahoga County results have been explained. What happened is that the county-wide results included absentee ballots, while the precinct results didn't (since they would have to be sorted).
                              I think I heard this. Whats the date on this update?

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                I guess it was pointed out more than a week ago.
                                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                                -Bokonon

                                Comment

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