Queen bans fox hunting!

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
Sentiense is a false border. Humanity is a better limitation, since it defines the group that has created, and the only group that can understand the concept of ethics, and any concept at all, for that matter.

Humanity is an entirely arbitrary border, morally - you're defining morality on the basis of the sequence of nucleotides in an organism's genome, which is absurd. It also has the problem that if we ever meet intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, our morality would have no application to them.

[Spiffor]

Kuci:
Go get tore to death by hounds. I'm eager to see if your reaction to that treatment differs from the average fox's

[alva]

Animals can not feel pain? What have you been smoking

That's what his textbook this month says, next chapter will go in deeper into this subject.

Cats are true carnivores, not dogs.

Huh, cats eat veggies too.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Kuci:
Go get tore to death by hounds. I'm eager to see if your reaction to that treatment differs from the average fox's

That's completely disingenuous, and you know it (or if you don't, you haven't been reading my posts).

I could build a robot that writhed and howled in what looked like pain when you started breaking it. I could make it so fantastically complicated that it even looked like a person. It would not, however, actually be feeling pain; it would be triggering motors and speakers whenever certain electrical sensors were triggered. It's exactly the same way with foxes. With humans, however, our thoughts are so complex that they actually give rise to self-awareness. This is obvious, since you know you are self-aware, and that your brain is practically similar to other humans' brains, so other humans ought to be self-aware too. In addition, there are other people who have spoken of the concept of self-awareness without you telling them about it first, and the most reasonable conclusion is that they have actually experienced it, to know of it.*

There is no difference between the fox's pain and a plant growing towards the light. Neither involve consciousness, all are just fantastically complicated but NOT self-aware machines responding to stimuli.

(* Turing proposed the "polite convention" that anything that claims it is self-aware, is actually self-aware, since all evidence for sentience in another being, even another person, is by nature circumstantial.)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by alva

Animals can not feel pain? What have you been smoking

That's what his textbook this month says, next chapter will go in deeper into this subject.

If you're not going to actually provide some sort of refutation of my argument, don't post as if you were superior. You're not.

[GePap]

Originally posted by alva

Cats are true carnivores, not dogs.

Huh, cats eat veggies too.

IIRC, cats have less of the teeth than can be used to grind plant matter than dogs. I see dogs eating grass all the time- I have never seen a cat munching on grass.

[alva]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


If you're not going to actually provide some sort of refutation of my argument, don't post as if you were superior. You're not.

Did I say I was? I will even admit you're more intelligent than I am. So what?
However, your ability to spew BS is equall to your vastly superior intellect, even if it is cleverly worded.

[alva]

Originally posted by GePap


IIRC, cats have less of the teeth than can be used to grind plant matter than dogs. I see dogs eating grass all the time- I have never seen a cat munching on grass.

Their diet does include veggies (grass is often eaten, but more to clean their stomach)
If you,for example, open a good brand of tinned catfood, you'll notice it will have peas, rice etc..

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by GePap


IIRC, cats have less of the teeth than can be used to grind plant matter than dogs. I see dogs eating grass all the time- I have never seen a cat munching on grass.

Dogs eat grass to make themselves sick, not because they like the taste

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yes. There is no such thing as sensation, beyond simple response to stimuli such as plants growing towards the light or, hell, an electron being repelled by a negative charge, in a nonsentient being.

Newsflash: pain is the response to a stimulus happening to our nervous system. The human people who have a dysfunctional nervous system will sometimes not feel the pain of a skin-burn, or of a rampant disease.

It is actually a serious medical condition, as the body cannot gather all (and in the most extreme cases none at all) the alerts sent by the nerves, and thus exposes itself to more danger.

Now, these people are human people, and they aren't brain dead.

This implies that:
1. Pain is the natural reaction to a stimuli vehiculated by our nervous system. Even by human people. Such possibility would imply that animals also feel pain, as they have a functional nervous system (unlike plants).

2. The pain we human experience is something we should dismiss, because it is a fallacy that can be bypassed by neutering the nervous system. If Fakirs can sit on nails, why couldn't we?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ming


Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather? Do you eat fish?

No.

[Gangerolf]

Hippie

[General Ludd]

That's me.

[Gangerolf]

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
Hippie