Rugby - Running Out of Titles

[Havak]

Well the Irish are at home to both France and England so have every chance of a slam.

I hope we spoil their party however.

Jonno announced this morning that he will retire at the end of this season - the Lomu circus being his last game. I shall therefore raise many a glass to him at the Quins game Saturday.

Thanks Jonno - it's been a joy to watch you over the years.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar

I haven't read "Cider House Rules", but I have read "Garp". In fact, ironically, I read it the first time I was in Europe in 1979. Wonderful book, very fine writer. As you have discovered, he has a unique style. And the film adaptation of "Garp" is also pretty good given that Irving is a very difficult author to adapt because so much of his charm is in his style. An author's style is very difficult to transfer to the screen, which is why an author like F. Scott Fitzgerald - "The Great Gatsby", etc - can't be successfully adapted to the screen. You should also, at some stage, read some of F. Scott Fitzgerald's work, "The Great Gatsby" in particular. It's sublime writing.

I have already heard about "The Great Gatsby" and Scott Fitzgerald, maybe after "The World According to Garp"... thanks.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

Thanks Jonno - it's been a joy to watch you over the years.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I have already heard about "The Great Gatsby" and Scott Fitzgerald, maybe after "The World According to Garp"... thanks.

Scott Fitzgerald managed to combine being a wonderful writer with being a total drunk. Maybe that's where I've gone wrong - I'm not much of a drinker. Although Havak shows promise.

[Havak]

Plenty of promise as a drinker

Not much as a writer - it requires a level of self discipline I completely lack.

[finbar]

Yet you have the self-discipline not to spill much?

[Tamerlin]

This is a matter of survival...

[finbar]

Get on with your reading.

[Havak]

Not so much self discipline - more self interest.

It's getting interesting in the build up to the 6N. Wales have lost both first choice flankers (Williams, Charvis)due to injury. France also have a crisis in the back row and Sale's Chabal has been called up - much to Saint Andre's dismay.

The Sales coach has been saying publically that teams that get more five players called up should be allowed to postpone fixtures - he now stands to lose 8 if you include the Scottish and French players he loses. Shame - I honestly can't remember a time when Tigers lost less than 8 senior players on international weekends (it's 11 senior squad members next weekend for example) and Sale never gave a monkies about us.


Robinson says he has a dilemma at scrum half - Dawson and Ellis is great form and Gomersall with a 'sweet pass'. So looks like Ellis on the bench then - as I suspect Robinson lacks the courage to throw him in straight off.

Getting towards the end of that book. It is fascinating I have to say - but the ego shines through very clearly indeed.

And Northampton's Kiwi scrum half Mark Robinson has been banned for 14 weeks after stamping on Leeds hooker Mark Regan in their Powergen loss last weekend. I watched the game and it was a very reckless incident - he literally pumped the pistons on the guys head.

English locks have seen red for far less when playing in NZ and in all honesty Chris White should have red carded him on the spot. Still at least it will reinforce Tamerlin's view of Whitey.

I wonder if White is down to ref Ireland-France?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The Sales coach has been saying publically that teams that get more five players called up should be allowed to postpone fixtures - he now stands to lose 8 if you include the Scottish and French players he loses. Shame - I honestly can't remember a time when Tigers lost less than 8 senior players on international weekends (it's 11 senior squad members next weekend for example) and Sale never gave a monkies about us.

Regardless of who is affected, it's an unfair situation. It also doesn't do the country's stocks any good because it only encourages the clubs' pursuit of foreign players.

Robinson says he has a dilemma at scrum half - Dawson and Ellis is great form and Gomersall with a 'sweet pass'. So looks like Ellis on the bench then - as I suspect Robinson lacks the courage to throw him in straight off.

I think Robinson is shaping as a dunderhead. Or worse.

Getting towards the end of that book. It is fascinating I have to say - but the ego shines through very clearly indeed.

I hope you borrowed it from someone. Or stole it from a bookshop.

And Northampton's Kiwi scrum half Mark Robinson has been banned for 14 weeks after stamping on Leeds hooker Mark Regan in their Powergen loss last weekend. I watched the game and it was a very reckless incident - he literally pumped the pistons on the guys head.

English locks have seen red for far less when playing in NZ and in all honesty Chris White should have red carded him on the spot.

Did the ref see it? Or one of the linesmen? If so, red card.

[Havak]

It also doesn't do the country's stocks any good because it only encourages the clubs' pursuit of foreign players.

I agree entirely Finbar. It’s totally unfair – and even rather ridiculous that we are forced to play club games on International weekends.

My point though was that Sale never ever joined Tigers in arguing against this until this season when, after a good season last year, more of their players got called up. Previously they kept quiet because they benefited from it big time as they met under strength teams. They should have looked beyond their myopic self interest years ago. I have ZERO sympathy with them. I have more for Bath if that gives you the level we are talking about here.

I think Robinson is shaping as a dunderhead. Or worse.

Woodward: “If he ever take over form me I hope he gets as talented number two as I have had.”

So what should we expect with a ‘Number Two’ coaching? ‘Crappy’ performances?

I kill myself, I really do.

He is of course a former Bath Man so may well prove to be a dunderhead. Little story – back in 95 I think Neil Back called him a ‘has been’ during a match to niggle him and got the reply ‘better than a never has been’. And which one then won everything in the game? With foresight like that he had to end up England coach.

I hope you borrowed it from someone. Or stole it from a bookshop.

Two married friends of mine bought me it for Xmas. Don’t be misled though – they are actually great people.

Did the ref see it? Or one of the linesmen? If so, red card.

IIRC it was seen and a penalty given – the citing officer raised the complaint after the match. To be fair it was at the back of a shambolic ruck – easy for the officials to have not seen the seriousness of the action.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
English locks have seen red for far less when playing in NZ and in all honesty Chris White should have red carded him on the spot. Still at least it will reinforce Tamerlin's view of Whitey.

I wonder if White is down to ref Ireland-France?

Is there a referee in the room?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
My point though was that Sale never ever joined Tigers in arguing against this until this season when, after a good season last year, more of their players got called up. Previously they kept quiet because they benefited from it big time as they met under strength teams. They should have looked beyond their myopic self interest years ago. I have ZERO sympathy with them. I have more for Bath if that gives you the level we are talking about here.

I understand your attitude. It's self-interest. Chickens coming home to blah-blah. The only solution is solve the problem. But how long would the domestic season extend if the comp were to be suspended for internationals?

He is of course a former Bath Man so may well prove to be a dunderhead.

He has struck me as cautious and conservative. And an idiot for returning to H. Paul.

Two married friends of mine bought me it for Xmas. Don’t be misled though – they are actually great people.

Hopefully they paid cash. If they used credit card, there will be a record of their purchase, and when they get to the Pearly Gates, they might find it comes back to bite them. Tell them that from me.

IIRC it was seen and a penalty given – the citing officer raised the complaint after the match. To be fair it was at the back of a shambolic ruck – easy for the officials to have not seen the seriousness of the action.

Sounds like the usual c*ck-up. How can the ref see enough stomping to award a penalty but not enough to warrant a red card? Damn NH refs!

[Havak]

Is there a referee in the room?

Just be grateful it can’t be Alun Lewis (Irish) – I have not seen anyone as bad this season as he has been.

But how long would the domestic season extend if the comp were to be suspended for internationals?

End of June – killing the summer tour and with the new season at the end of August.

But of course teams used to play mid-week fixtures to cram everything in before this current system. Either way leaves player burn out and physical recovery a huge problem.

I dislike the idea but it seems inevitable a two pool top flight will be implemented – with six in each pool and S12 style play offs between the pools. Well it’s either that or just have the top three English and top three French sides go straight into the European QFs and let the minnow nations battle for the last two places.

He has struck me as cautious and conservative. And an idiot for returning to H. Paul.

That seemed to be his way of saying “this is my era now”. And didn’t it work well?

The big test of him is next Tuesday – I shall be carefully watching the centres he names as well as the scrummie as I think he may **** this one up.

Tell them that from me.

I will. Eternal Damnation for buying the Sainted Knights book.

How can the ref see enough stomping to award a penalty but not enough to warrant a red card? Damn NH refs!

It’s a problem with all refs – too many wimp out on red cards. Not Stuart Dickinson though eh? Killed a test match and then two days later the disciplinary panel overturn the card.

Well I have finished the book. It’s an interesting read though I by no means buy into everything he says. I do see eye to eye with him on the Aussie media though – and agree it was ludicrous they branded him the ‘new Jardine’ just because he met pressure with pressure at the first Perth press conference. Can I just say by the way that I have never seen anything wrong with what Jardine did and I am certain that the other way around the Aussies would not have hesitated to do the same thing. The win is everything – Jardine was simply guilty of being a winner ahead of his time – very ‘un-English’.

And you will hate this – right towards the end Clive mentions that SMH front page the day after Sydney and says that it did make him laugh, as he “loves Australia and the Australian people though I’m not sure they feel the same about me”.

He also kept his word and did not do a kiss and tell – no scurrilous rumours about people and you have to draw your own conclusions from what he does not say. It seems clear he does not like Andre Watson as he catalogues very clearly the man’s knack for being involved in tight exciting games with specific decisions discussed. My favourite is our first test in Bokland in 2000 when Joost stuck his hands into a ruck on our line and claimed a try – you could see nothing at all on any camera but the video ref, one Andre Watson, gave it. It makes much more sense now why he let your front row hoodwink him all the time in the RWC final (you tight head faded all the time if you recall – but Watson penalised Woodman every time! Clever Aussie gamesmanship at it’s best).

Okay you won’t bite there I’m sure

You might find this as funny as I did though. The IRB celebration dinner the day after the final the entire squad attended as required. Their reception was muted – the room was full of Aussies who had paid thousands of Aussie dollars expecting a celebration of Wallaby triumph. Clive almost cried for them. All night on big screens all around the room on continuous loop what do you think was played – the Aussies RWC 99 final triumph!!! Now that is funny – but he throws in the serious point that in France in 2007 the hosts would never be so rude as to show the 2003 final certainly if the winners are different .

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I dislike the idea but it seems inevitable a two pool top flight will be implemented – with six in each pool and S12 style play offs between the pools.

It seems to be the only way to overcome the problem. Presumably the pools will switch around each year.

The big test of him is next Tuesday – I shall be carefully watching the centres he names as well as the scrummie as I think he may **** this one up.

Rest assured I'll be watching on Fox Sports!

It’s a problem with all refs – too many wimp out on red cards. Not Stuart Dickinson though eh? Killed a test match and then two days later the disciplinary panel overturn the card.

Gee, the bait starts out stinky and gets even stinkier as the post progresses!

Well I have finished the book. It’s an interesting read though I by no means buy into everything he says. I do see eye to eye with him on the Aussie media though – and agree it was ludicrous they branded him the ‘new Jardine’ just because he met pressure with pressure at the first Perth press conference. Can I just say by the way that I have never seen anything wrong with what Jardine did and I am certain that the other way around the Aussies would not have hesitated to do the same thing. The win is everything – Jardine was simply guilty of being a winner ahead of his time – very ‘un-English’.

Jardine exploited the laws as they stood. Whether it was sporting or not is another matter. And if Australia had thought of it, I'd say the same thing. I didn't see the media calling Clive the new Jardine. It's silly anyway. Jardine wasn't a prat. But Clive revelled in it all anyway.

And you will hate this – right towards the end Clive mentions that SMH front page the day after Sydney and says that it did make him laugh, as he “loves Australia and the Australian people though I’m not sure they feel the same about me”.

The fundamental problem was that a lot of people here thought him a prat. And not the genius he thought he was. He was made to look good by - well, we won't go down that road again. And, these days, a lot of people here think him a quitter.

Okay you won’t bite there I’m sure

Nuh.

Now that is funny – but he throws in the serious point that in France in 2007 the hosts would never be so rude as to show the 2003 final certainly if the winners are different .

No, the French have a different sense of humor. But they'll come up with something, I'm sure.