Congratulations America! You finally did it!

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by Boshko
Not really. If the US government wanted to stop people doing that sort of thing they'd just make it so merely being born in the US doesn't make you a citizen (ironically enough, Ireland did just that for exactly this reason).

That would require a constitutional amendment.

Oh right, 14th Ammendment *doh*. Anyway, there's absolutely no causal connection between being taking advantage of that Ammendment and countries getting their visa waiver status yanked.

[our_man]

It's not a simple matter of saying "he is Irish, he isn't going to be a danger" or insert random nationality. Measures has to be taken across the board and besides before everyone was up in arms at the prospect that certain nationalities got worse treatment than others. Now it's "well they are allies so they should be allowed easier access"

True, but let's be honest here. You let Gerry Adams into the USA. Come on, Gerry "I was never in the IRA" Adams.

Measures don't have to be taken across the board. Certain groups are more of a risk than others (aren't there more restrictions on certain Middle East countries). To hell with this PC rubbish - profiling is acceptable. It saves time and money, and puts less people at a disadvantage.

If you're capable of letting in Gerry Adams, then believe me, you should let in any Irish person.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Boshko

Not really. If the US government wanted to stop people doing that sort of thing they'd just make it so merely being born in the US doesn't make you a citizen (ironically enough, Ireland did just that for exactly this reason). And keeping my girlfriend out of the country does absolutely-nothing to solve the problem, since the way that the application process goes the pregnant Koreans are generally a shoe-ins as long as their husbands have good job or a big bank account (generally as long as your parents or spouse have X amount of money in the bank you can get a visa no problem). As of now, the US government has taken absolutely no measures to curtail "that ****."

Also, it is almost exclusively the "well off college grads" who "pull that ****." And its more in order to allow their kids to dodge the Korean draft and take advantage of the very nice provisions of the Korean F-4 visa, which any ethnic Korean with a foreign citizenship can get.

And my girlfriend has a college degree in English education and it didn't help her at all .

Well since when does the US government do everything right? I said this looks like a reaction against the "come to American to have your kid" thing. That doesn't mean it was a particularly intelligent reaction, does it?

I'm not sure about changing the born in the USA citizenship thing. It might be the wise choice, but I haven't thought about it, and I suppose that, despite its often wacky results, I'm kinda fond of it.

-Arrian

[DanS]

Measures don't have to be taken across the board. Certain groups are more of a risk than others (aren't there more restrictions on certain Middle East countries). To hell with this PC rubbish - profiling is acceptable. It saves time and money, and puts less people at a disadvantage.

Yes it does, but it's untenable over the long run in the US, for a host of political reasons.

[DanS]

We really need to sign an open visa program with the EU and Canada which would allow the citizens of any member country to work or live in other member countries.

You would be really surprised at how many Europeans would be coming our way and how few would be going the other way. I don't know how we could do this without serious disruption in the short-term. Over the long-run, I have no doubt that we would benefit, but...

[Arrian]

If you're capable of letting in Gerry Adams, then believe me, you should let in any Irish person.

Ugh. Was that under Clinton? Our choices wrt to the IRA have been poor, no doubt.

Dan's right about the profiling issue. It's politically explosive, because it smacks of bigotry. Personally, I'd like to think we're capable of profiling based on a lot more than just race/country of origin and doing it in a respectful manner. But maybe we can't. The people who would actually be executing policy - the guys & gals at the airport - are not usually our best 'n brightest. It's a trickey issue. The choice, thus far, is to be indiscriminate. That appears to be pissing people off. Well, we're gonna piss people off either way, so I guess the argument is why not piss people off equitably?

-Arrian

[our_man]

Yes it does, but it's untenable over the long run in the US, for a host of political reasons.

So you can see the current draconian controls being relaxed in the future?

You would be really surprised at how many Europeans would be coming our way

This European for one!

[Sprayber]

Up until now I'd assume most of the new polices are stopgap measures until a more coherent policy can be found. I wouldnt hold my breath though because immigration policy has always been a matter of what is convient for this country at the time.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian


Well since when does the US government do everything right? I said this looks like a reaction against the "come to American to have your kid" thing. That doesn't mean it was a particularly intelligent reaction, does it?

I'm not sure about changing the born in the USA citizenship thing. It might be the wise choice, but I haven't thought about it, and I suppose that, despite its often wacky results, I'm kinda fond of it.

-Arrian

Naaah, it sucks up our precious resources that have become endangered. Namely OB doctors. Birthing all those illegals puts more strain on the already stretched OB's.

Tort reform!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by our_man
To hell with this PC rubbish - profiling is acceptable. It saves time and money, and puts less people at a disadvantage.

How come El Al, the Israeli national airline hasn't ever had a highjacking but they spend hardly any more money on security then major western airlines have in any year since 9/11? They profile that's why. It works to since El Al has never had a highjacking dispite being an obvious terrorist target.

[DanS]

Up until now I'd assume most of the new polices are stopgap measures until a more coherent policy can be found. I wouldnt hold my breath though because immigration policy has always been a matter of what is convient for this country at the time.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Naaah, it sucks up our precious resources that have become endangered. Namely OB doctors. Birthing all those illegals puts more strain on the already stretched OB's.

Tort reform!

Heh.

Tort reform

-Arrian

[Arrian]

How long before we can no longer call a policy a stop-gap? I mean, it's been 3 years since 9/11. 5 years? 10?

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS

You would be really surprised at how many Europeans would be coming our way and how few would be going the other way. I don't know how we could do this without serious disruption in the short-term. Over the long-run, I have no doubt that we would benefit, but...

I'm sure there would be plenty of young Americans who want to work for a year in Europe though you're right about the better US economy attracting more workers. Still, economically it would make everyone more efficient as skilled workers could then move to where ever demand is greatest plus the countries with weaker economies would benifit as there would be fewer people on unemployment.

[DanS]

I hear ya, Oerdin. But it would be a very lopsided proposition for a while. I know several Europeans who are trying to get into the US on a permanent basis and none going the other way to Europe, even though I know a heck of a lot more Americans than Europeans.

I'm of the same opinion about the benefits to both of us, although I would strongly prefer that they become US citizens.